Can someone explain the need for valve cover venting?
The air space between the heads and valve cover is connected to the crankcase through the pushrod tubes. Why isn't it sufficient to vent at the oil filler since it is all interconnected?
Is there some displacement or compression ratio or rpm limit where this becomes more important?
Thanks.
Former Member
Michael, I don't know what the right answer is in mathematical terms, but my engine's case pressure seems to really like 40 pounds (I have a Mohawk gauge on the engine itself). If my oil's right and my dipstick's in good and snug, I don't puke oil until I hit 4,000 rpms or so. When I do, the oil burps right out the dipstick tube and the breather box.
What I think happens is, as the rpms go up and the pistons are doing their thing on the gasoline side, they're also pressurizing the gasses in the oil side. The gasoline side gets vented as it should via the exhaust valves, but the oil side has no place to go except the dipstick tube or vented valve covers.
To solve that, especially at higher rpms with larger pistons (mine are 104.5s) and a short stroke (71), the case pressure needs to breathe in order for the gas side to produce meaningful force.
The oil, free to move around in the heads, is looking for someplace to go when it's out there. Usually, it wants to drain back down through the pushrod tubes or through little perforations in your gaskets. At higher rpms, the tubes have oil slapping around in their bottom ends, and there's a connundrum; the oil wants the path of least resistance.
The gasses keep looking for a way out also, so you vent the valve covers and let the gasses out. If particulate oil in those gasses follows the lines up and out, it should reconstitute itself once the pressures are relieved -- and then drain back into the case.
In my case, there was that critical over-pressure at 4,100 and higher rpms, so the oil never got a chance to drain back in before it filled the improperly vented breather setup. It just kept pushing oil up the lines because it couldn't percolate like it should have.
A smaller engine might never develop a problem you could point a finger at, but you might see drips from the heads or seeping oil through the tiny aerations inherent in a case's injection casting.
I'm speculating, but it seems reasonable. Since that's the premise I'm going on, a larger bore out of the valve cover and a larger aperture and breather assembly ought to further reduce the amount of oil hanging in the gasses by the time they get to the tank.
Time will tell.
What I think happens is, as the rpms go up and the pistons are doing their thing on the gasoline side, they're also pressurizing the gasses in the oil side. The gasoline side gets vented as it should via the exhaust valves, but the oil side has no place to go except the dipstick tube or vented valve covers.
To solve that, especially at higher rpms with larger pistons (mine are 104.5s) and a short stroke (71), the case pressure needs to breathe in order for the gas side to produce meaningful force.
The oil, free to move around in the heads, is looking for someplace to go when it's out there. Usually, it wants to drain back down through the pushrod tubes or through little perforations in your gaskets. At higher rpms, the tubes have oil slapping around in their bottom ends, and there's a connundrum; the oil wants the path of least resistance.
The gasses keep looking for a way out also, so you vent the valve covers and let the gasses out. If particulate oil in those gasses follows the lines up and out, it should reconstitute itself once the pressures are relieved -- and then drain back into the case.
In my case, there was that critical over-pressure at 4,100 and higher rpms, so the oil never got a chance to drain back in before it filled the improperly vented breather setup. It just kept pushing oil up the lines because it couldn't percolate like it should have.
A smaller engine might never develop a problem you could point a finger at, but you might see drips from the heads or seeping oil through the tiny aerations inherent in a case's injection casting.
I'm speculating, but it seems reasonable. Since that's the premise I'm going on, a larger bore out of the valve cover and a larger aperture and breather assembly ought to further reduce the amount of oil hanging in the gasses by the time they get to the tank.
Time will tell.
Attachments
My triple black VS speedster updating is like done......
Di.... Daaaaaaa!
Have been doing odds and ends on the triple black VS over the past couple of months.. easy - peasy stuff: replaced the weather stripping axle beam height adjustment, changed out the wiper switch, installing a VS luggage rack, oil service, valve adjustment, a couple of grill badges and a unique Chambersburg (my home town) AAA Auto Club badge from the 50's and lastly replaced the heat cables this AM. This is a refreshing change from spending countless hours assembling and rebuilding speedsters. Iffy weather today so I'll wait it out for the sun. ~Alan
Di.... Daaaaaaa!
Have been doing odds and ends on the triple black VS over the past couple of months.. easy - peasy stuff: replaced the weather stripping axle beam height adjustment, changed out the wiper switch, installing a VS luggage rack, oil service, valve adjustment, a couple of grill badges and a unique Chambersburg (my home town) AAA Auto Club badge from the 50's and lastly replaced the heat cables this AM. This is a refreshing change from spending countless hours assembling and rebuilding speedsters. Iffy weather today so I'll wait it out for the sun. ~Alan
Still just driving this little rocketship. Man with this 2110 I put together this thing is a machine, good torque down low and plenty of pull above 3500 rpm. It seams this engine is most happy above 2500 rpms. Crusing down the freeway at 3000 rpms and around 65-70 mph, I had a guy in one of those little Jap cars buzz me looking for a little competion and I didn't want to let him down :) So I dropped into 3rd hit the throttle switched back into 4th, spun it up to 5500 rpm looked up in the mirrors to find my competitor, spotted him back about 5 car lenths. When I looked back forward I spotted one of our friends in one of those colorful cars. You know the ones, they have two primary colors (blk & wht) and those blue and red things on top. So of couse I didn't want to contribute to the policemen's fund so I let off. My competitor did want to cotribute and got his chance right there on the side of the frewway. Boy I tell you those policemen do want to make it convenant to contribute.
So when are we going to hit the canyons again for some spearited driving???? Can't wait :)
So when are we going to hit the canyons again for some spearited driving???? Can't wait :)
Attachments
Alan,
What's the Ebay item number? ;)
What's the Ebay item number? ;)
Bwaaaaaaaaa Haaaaaa Haaaaa...oops..excuse please...couldn't help it :)
Kevin -
Sounds like you're having more fun than humans are allowed to have when driving your Speedy!
Sounds like you're having more fun than humans are allowed to have when driving your Speedy!
Your right, But someone has to do it. So I'll take one for the team..... hehe :)
What a perfect backdrop for a Speedster, an art museum.
Gorgeous car Felix.
Gorgeous car Felix.
Felix -
Sounds like a good day!! Great shots of the car - BTW, I don't think its possible to take a BAD picture of a Speedster that's being driven!!
Peace - Out!
Sounds like a good day!! Great shots of the car - BTW, I don't think its possible to take a BAD picture of a Speedster that's being driven!!
Peace - Out!
Former Member
I took advantage of a really nice day yesterday to go and visit a guy who used to work on my 928s (oil breather thread). When I left there, I went to a deli down the street from his shop and ordered the biggest, most absolutely perfect turkey and avacado sandwich I've ever eaten. It weighed almost a pound.
It was so tasty that I had to call Gordon (as I left the deli) to give him a list of ingredients. When I hung up and walked to the Hoopty, a humble little guy with a yamika on his head was poking into the engine compartment of a 2005 Toyota Sienna.
It was Rosh Hashanah, and he appeared to be having trouble getting his van to start. He kept looking at his watch. It was also hot, and there were four other people in the van.
I was parked about two spots away -- nobody between us. He looked at me, looked at my car, and asked if I knew anything about engines. It was a nice day, and I didn't have anything planned.
"Yes, sir. A little. How can I help you?"
Long story short, his battery was dead, his ground wire was loose and the power cable to the starter was badly corroded. I didn't want him to mess up his clothes or get his hands into the corroded bits, so I just did what needed doing while he watched. I cleaned up the pieces I could reach, then drove him to several shops in search of the right battery. We found one after a bit of searching. The whole adventure took a couple hours, but he made his timeline after all.
Turns out, he's a rabbi. We had a long conversation as we tooled around, him with one hand on his hat to keep it from blowing off. He had a big smile on his face, too. Zip, zip, zip; the dead battery was out, the new one was in and he was able to start his van.
As I got into the car to leave, he asked me if he could give me anything for my trouble. I told him to pay it forward, wished him a happy New Year and waved as I left.
I'm glad I had my little road toolbox with me. It worked out well.
I even have a picture of the sandwich!
It was so tasty that I had to call Gordon (as I left the deli) to give him a list of ingredients. When I hung up and walked to the Hoopty, a humble little guy with a yamika on his head was poking into the engine compartment of a 2005 Toyota Sienna.
It was Rosh Hashanah, and he appeared to be having trouble getting his van to start. He kept looking at his watch. It was also hot, and there were four other people in the van.
I was parked about two spots away -- nobody between us. He looked at me, looked at my car, and asked if I knew anything about engines. It was a nice day, and I didn't have anything planned.
"Yes, sir. A little. How can I help you?"
Long story short, his battery was dead, his ground wire was loose and the power cable to the starter was badly corroded. I didn't want him to mess up his clothes or get his hands into the corroded bits, so I just did what needed doing while he watched. I cleaned up the pieces I could reach, then drove him to several shops in search of the right battery. We found one after a bit of searching. The whole adventure took a couple hours, but he made his timeline after all.
Turns out, he's a rabbi. We had a long conversation as we tooled around, him with one hand on his hat to keep it from blowing off. He had a big smile on his face, too. Zip, zip, zip; the dead battery was out, the new one was in and he was able to start his van.
As I got into the car to leave, he asked me if he could give me anything for my trouble. I told him to pay it forward, wished him a happy New Year and waved as I left.
I'm glad I had my little road toolbox with me. It worked out well.
I even have a picture of the sandwich!
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Cory, my Rosh-Hashanah-saving/corroded-battery-replacing/turkey-sandwich-eating meshuga!!
No matter what Lane says about you, I think you're an O.K. kinda guy!!
Peace - Out!
No matter what Lane says about you, I think you're an O.K. kinda guy!!
Peace - Out!
I always said you were a real mensch, Cory.
Shalom!
Shalom!
Bravo Cory,
Very kind and that karma will bring good things to you.
Oh yeah that sammie looks really good too.
Cheers
Dave
Very kind and that karma will bring good things to you.
Oh yeah that sammie looks really good too.
Cheers
Dave
Former Member
Thanks, fellas. Anybody here would do the same thing.
Hey, Felix -- That is an AWESOME car. Nice choice on background scenery, too!
Hey, Felix -- That is an AWESOME car. Nice choice on background scenery, too!
Thanks Mickey, Jim and Cory. And Cory, that was a very nice gesture of helping ones neighbor. I agree with Dave about the good karma.
Felix, looks like you are having a great time with your IM. Thanks for the cool shots. Corey, nice job! Karma, good will, you got a bundle buddy.
Cory,
I woudl live to hear the stories he tells about zipping around in the Hoopty! Well done.
ECB
I woudl live to hear the stories he tells about zipping around in the Hoopty! Well done.
ECB
...Cory, a Hoopty and a Rabbi walked into a bar...
I went for a lunch drive and then an after work drive. There are some really nice curvy roads around my end of Olympia so I took advantage of them. The after work drive took me into town where I parked to put the top up and had my first admiring crowds. What a hoot! Folks love these cars!
Tomm
Tomm
Former Member
I am ashamed to admit that my red CMC Speedster C has sat in the garage since 2003 without being driven. The last thing I did to it was replace the dropped front beam that was waaay to low with a regular beam and dropped spindles. Front end alignment was way off and too squirally to go more than 45 mph.
I have been busy with life and kids and work but yesterday, I put it back up on jack stands and had my daughter help me re-align the front end into a configuration that might get me to the alignment shop without going into the ditch first. Then I pulled the gas tank out and drained out 6 gallons of really crappy gas. At a VW car show today, I found another gas tank that looks like it was made for a Speedster replica for the low low price of $8. I plan to clean it up this week and get a new battery and some fresh gas. My goal is get this running by next weekend. Wish me luck!
Take care,
Rich Smith
Westfield, IN
PS: I am writing this down so I will be obligated to make it happen. Happy motoring!
I have been busy with life and kids and work but yesterday, I put it back up on jack stands and had my daughter help me re-align the front end into a configuration that might get me to the alignment shop without going into the ditch first. Then I pulled the gas tank out and drained out 6 gallons of really crappy gas. At a VW car show today, I found another gas tank that looks like it was made for a Speedster replica for the low low price of $8. I plan to clean it up this week and get a new battery and some fresh gas. My goal is get this running by next weekend. Wish me luck!
Take care,
Rich Smith
Westfield, IN
PS: I am writing this down so I will be obligated to make it happen. Happy motoring!
You're on the right track to be able to come out to Carlisle '09 !
Good on ya, Rich. One tip - Since it's been sitting for 5 years you probably want to drain and replace your brake fluid as it has probably absorbed some water. That'll cause rusting internally - a bad thing.
Former Member
Lane, good tip! I noticed when I was pulling the tank out that the brake fluid seemed darker then it should be. I will add that to the list of things to do.
I cleaned out the tank today, treated it with rust remover and rust converter and rinsed it out well. It's drying now. I plan to hit the outside with the wire brush tommorrow and get a coat of primer on it.
It's slow but it's progress...
PS: I did mark Carlisle 09 on the calendar!
I cleaned out the tank today, treated it with rust remover and rust converter and rinsed it out well. It's drying now. I plan to hit the outside with the wire brush tommorrow and get a coat of primer on it.
It's slow but it's progress...
PS: I did mark Carlisle 09 on the calendar!
Rich - The darkness probably is rust, so you might consider replacing your master cylinder and wheel cylinders. The rust can make them bind, and can also make the bores rough, causing a quick failure of the internal rubber bits.
Today I had a kill switch installed that works remotely, rather than with a toggle switch....Also had an Accessory power plug installed just in case it would be needed in the future, (bluetooth/cell phone charger, etc)....
Kill switch gives me a little comfort when I am away from the tub. If they can get past it, I then have insurance.....
Kill switch gives me a little comfort when I am away from the tub. If they can get past it, I then have insurance.....
Vince,
With you I always wonder what the "etc." is...
With you I always wonder what the "etc." is...
WRT Vince - If you're wondering if 'etc' is something perverted, wet, naked, in-your-face-chauvinistic-straight-talk, mean-what-you-say-and-say-what-you-mean, or any other 'Man Card' required trait - then wonder no more!!
I LIKE IT!!!!
I LIKE IT!!!!
I went for a glorious early AM drive in Jessica. The mists were still lifting off Capitol Lake and the roads were clear. Life is good.
Tomm
Tomm
I couldn't drag my fanny out of bed in time for Cars & Coffee this A.M. so Candace and I took a late morning cruise in the JPS coupe, out through the canyon, past Irvine Lake and Cook's Corner, on down to Laguna by way of Laguna Canyon then up the PCH and stopped at the old Cars & Coffee site for some Starbucks. Saw 4 356's between Laguna and Corona Del Mar, 3 coupes and a 60's convertible. Continued on through Newport and Huntington Beach to Belmont Shore and then back home. Had some time in the afternoon to throw on a camber compensator and install a Gene Berg shifter. I know, I know, originality goes out the window with the Berg t-handle but I got tired of people nearly driving up my butt while I searched for gears with the stock set-up. I really like the look of the CSP like Lane I believe has, but Gene Berg is only 3 miles from my house and his track record of satisfied shifter customers is years long. I have an Empi shifter in the speedster that still works real well but figured with all the tax credits and free money the 2 presidential candidates are promising, I might as well splurge on the Berg.
Cruised from Pasadena to North Hollywood and went to United Auto for an oil change and valve adjustment. Hooah, does she sing now!
Former Member
Hi guys.. Well after having it apart and back together 5 more times dialing in the newer rack&pinon upgrades,, Im VERY happy to report that It a keeper. The center steer is crisp steady and I haven't had it lined up yeat.
This time its correct. and it realy handles like its riding on rails around the curves its in the zone SOLID. and I am quite pleased with what it taught me. and now have a real apreciation for the pro builders out there..
Now however its turned of cool here in NC. But it wil be fun next year for sure. I now need to clean her up and get her ready for my cool weather vaction. at the end of the month.
This time its correct. and it realy handles like its riding on rails around the curves its in the zone SOLID. and I am quite pleased with what it taught me. and now have a real apreciation for the pro builders out there..
Now however its turned of cool here in NC. But it wil be fun next year for sure. I now need to clean her up and get her ready for my cool weather vaction. at the end of the month.
Careful when you say " it's a keeper"....I've said that at least 20 something times to date !
Former Member
well we took off the soft top and replaced it with a hardtop
nottttttttt :)
nottttttttt :)
Former Member
I tend to hang on my cars. Especialy something nice.. I would not want to have to replace it, EVER It was a toughy build and Quite hard to convert it into a Drauzs rag top.
I can"t aford a IM and my health is decining. so this is it. I might intertain doing partial mods on a spider to make a gullwing fastback I think I could do that over a summer.
But a builder would have to finish it up for me. Buying a completed less than perfect spider then reworking it . Then returning it to the builder to complete the trim out and paint work.
Beck is my first choise for such a indever they have a place here in NC.
I already ave 2 more fresh fully automatic trannies in storage one is working the other is a mistery that would not work that may yeat go to the Bug Stop I suspect its got a bad converter or valvebody I have been in it 3 times and it still wont work .All new parts ecept the converter. I still think its something simple. and it was a very low milage tranny. I need to aquire another tranny and swap converters and valvebodies and try it again. it way to nice to scrap.
I can"t aford a IM and my health is decining. so this is it. I might intertain doing partial mods on a spider to make a gullwing fastback I think I could do that over a summer.
But a builder would have to finish it up for me. Buying a completed less than perfect spider then reworking it . Then returning it to the builder to complete the trim out and paint work.
Beck is my first choise for such a indever they have a place here in NC.
I already ave 2 more fresh fully automatic trannies in storage one is working the other is a mistery that would not work that may yeat go to the Bug Stop I suspect its got a bad converter or valvebody I have been in it 3 times and it still wont work .All new parts ecept the converter. I still think its something simple. and it was a very low milage tranny. I need to aquire another tranny and swap converters and valvebodies and try it again. it way to nice to scrap.
Went to a wooden boat festival on the Tchefuncte River in a small town called Madisonville about an hour north of NOLA. There was a classic car show with some impressive custom hot rods and stock American iron from the 50's and 60's. Although I didn
Felix - Sounds like a good day to me! Too Much fun!
Former Member
Nina and I found time mid-day to celebrate our 24th anniversary (of our first date!!)...went to lunch in the speedy....I even touched her %$!#& in the parking lot!!! Good times; good times!