What kind of Brakes do I have

From that photo those appear to be your standard rear disc brake conversion for a VW Beetle.  Likely EMPI with Varga calipers.  Although the specs have changed slightly over the years, they should  use pad PN# 22-2891-0  

Thank you!

If the news ones continue to squeal, try two things:

1. Apply some disk brake anti-squeal gel to the back side of the pads were they contact the caliper.  Apply, let dry a few minutes and then install the pads or
2. Chamfer the leading edge of the pads (as the disks rotate toward them) at about 45 degrees for about 3/16" across the leading edge.   You can do this with a coarse file.

After you do what Gordon says, then properly bed the new brake pads in. Do a google search on the procedure, it isn't difficult. You just need an empty road/parking lot and some time. You do need to drive for a short while after bedding without applying the brakes so they can cool. And DO NOT apply the parking brake when the rears are hot, a big no-no.

Danny, Gordon, Chine….thanks for taking the time to type that all.  I use the search tool here a lot to learn, but I just needed a confirmation.

I can’t believe I have a nice modest Porsche collection and my favorite one right now is a reproduction.  I love driving this thing.

  I really have no desire for a real 57 speedster in this good of condition (not that I could afford it).    I’d be afraid to drive it.

  With a beefier engine and all wheels disc brakes this is just perfect.  

So the 22-2891 pads will fit both front and rear?  The car was built in 2002. I posted a photo of what I bought.  

@chines1 posted:

From that photo those appear to be your standard rear disc brake conversion for a VW Beetle.  Likely EMPI with Varga calipers.  Although the specs have changed slightly over the years, they should  use pad PN# 22-2891-0  

@Cartod posted:

Danny, Gordon, Chine….thanks for taking the time to type that all.  I use the search tool here a lot to learn, but I just needed a confirmation.

...

Just FYI, "Chine" is Carey Hines, President of Special Edition, maker of Beck cars.  He knows of what he speaks.

How awesome to have this extent of experience and knowledge at this sight.  👍👍👍

You got that right, @Cartod

@Cartod posted:

Danny, Gordon, Chine….thanks for taking the time to type that all.  I use the search tool here a lot to learn, but I just needed a confirmation.

I can’t believe I have a nice modest Porsche collection and my favorite one right now is a reproduction.  I love driving this thing.

  I really have no desire for a real 57 speedster in this good of condition (not that I could afford it).    I’d be afraid to drive it.

  With a beefier engine and all wheels disc brakes this is just perfect.  

That's the beauty of our little plastic cars- at a glance they're almost indistinguishable from a real Speedster, as fun (or more) to drive, most of them handle/stop better and have more power than the originals and you don't have to worry about ruining something that's irreplaceable...

I do not yet know if this is so for your (or even my) car, but generally, front disk equipment is different (larger) than rear brake equipment.  So I'm guessing (others will know for sure) that front pads and rear pads are two different things.  And that caliper does look like an EMPI conversion kit thing.

I have found them to be always different.  Majority of front disc brake pads have two holes to hold the 2 mounting pins.  (Very early Ghia front discs had one hole).

As Wolfgang said, the fronts are usually stock Ghia. Originally there were single pin and twin pin front calipers/pads, referring to the holes for the retaining clips, but they have all moved to the twin pin version in later years.

Thanks again!  So I went ahead and pulled a front wheel and took a pic of front brakes.  I assume I am looking at the 2-pin setup that Mr Hines mentioned?  

YUP - You've got 2-Pin pads.  

Drive the pins out with a small punch.  Each pin has a retainer attached to hold them in place when installed.  They drive out pretty easily with a few hammer taps.

Don't forget to install the anti-rattle springs.  Use your photo to re-assemble everything.

I’m getting ready to do front pads now.   Will I need to compress the calipers in order to get new pads in?  

Yes, you’ll have to compress the pistons in the calipers.

I just use a big ( 8” or so ) “C” clamp and slowly crank them in until they are flush with the caliper.  

@Cartod posted:

I’m getting ready to do front pads now.   Will I need to compress the calipers in order to get new pads in?  

@Gordon Nichols posted:

Yes, you’ll have to compress the pistons in the calipers.

I just use a big ( 8” or so ) “C” clamp and slowly crank them in until they are flush with the caliper.  

Go slow so you don't overflow the master cylinder reservoir. If you're concerned you can take out some old fluid and refill it after you've finished.

I would buy a cheap turkey baster from the dollar store and keep it in the garage. Suck out as much fluid as possible. Then push the pistons back. Suck out any more fluid that you can.

I use a HUGE pair of slip-joint(or also called water pump) pliers to push the pistons back. My pliers are about a foot long. If the calipers are nice and painted put a slim piece of wood under the plier jaws.

Install new pads and fill with a BRAND NEW unopened DOT 3 or 4 brake fluid. I buy small quantities because it goes bad within a few months once you break the seal on the bottle. Get 2 bottles, maybe 3 small ones.

Bleed and flush the entire system. This is important to do every 2 years as brake fluid absorbs moisture from the air, it is hygroscopic. Even more important on vehicles that don't get used a lot. I change my fluid every year in my Spyder in the spring. Clutch master too.

Dam.  Please keep the responses coming.  I’m following the advice.

I have high end " Neal " disc brakes all the way around on the Outlaw project, they have been sitting new on the chassis for 8 years , the caliper pistons had a bit of brake fluid weeping and frozen pistons, thought I'd rebuild them only to discover Neal Brakes has been out of business for ....7 years , Looks like I'll be buying complete front and rear disc brake package$.

If you are simply replacing pads or shoes and resurfacing discs or drums you should not need to remove any brake fluid from the reservoir.  Doing this is risky in my opinion for several reasons including possibly contaminating the fluid (which needs to be clean) or spilling some…DOT-3 is notorious for damaging paint.

When you use the C-clamp method mentioned above keep a brake pad in the caliper next to the piston.  This allows even pressure and reduces the risk of scarring the face of the piston.

If you find yourself needing to ADD fluid you should flush all the old stuff out and start over with new, clean fluid.  You CANNOT mix DOT-3 and DOT-4 so if you don’t absolutely know what is in there now you may get it wrong when you top it off.

Brakes may just be the single most important component of your car.  It’s a fairly simple job.  Do it right the first time…and every time!

I'm gonna have to respectfully disagree here.

DOT 5 is silicone-based and is NOT compatible with DOT 3 or 4. That's the one that most people are thinking of when they think of incompatibility.

However, DOT 3 has a slightly lower boiling point than DOT 4 and IS compatible. DOT 4 just absorbs water from the air a little faster than DOT 3. Both are glycol based. DOT 4 is used on modern ABS systems. In fact, there are fluids on the shelf at your FLAPS that say DOT3/4 right on the bottle.

Now, about removing fluid. First, it's a GREAT practice to flush and replace every two years. Why not do it while you're changing pads and shoes? It's as good a time as any other. Plus, the wheels are off and the car is in the air. To me, it's a no-brainer. Simply, if you change the fluid every two years you will probably NEVER have to change a master, caliper, or wheel cylinder. Less than $10 and a little time to prevent unnecessary replacement? I'm in. It just makes sense.

If your pads and/or shoes are worn way down and your reservoir is FULL, there is a very good possibility of fluid overflow when you push things back. It's happened to me. That's more messy than simply sucking it out with a turkey baster. Contamination? From what, a new and clean turkey baster?

Proper prep work to eliminate the worry of brake fluid on your paint is easy. Purchase a cheap plastic paint drop cloth or cut open a kitchen garbage bag. Be slow, deliberate, and careful. Put a rag on the bottom of the baster as you move away. If you spill some, immediately wipe it with a rag and then a quick soap/water rinse. There will be no paint damage. Fear of paint damage is no excuse for not doing proper preventative maintenance.

@DannyP : All excellent points.  My comment about the mixing of fluids may be a bit dated admittedly.  I am going back to the days of old when DOT-4 was the latest and greatest stuff.  That said, I would never think to mix and match brake or clutch fluids.  Again, perhaps I’m still a bit OCD, but the thought of a single drop of fluid damaging a painted surface would be all I ever saw if it happened.

I agree that a complete drain and flush is the best way to go; but if you do that I suggest pumping it all out as opposed to siphoning it out of the reservoir.  Maybe there is a better way, but moving around with a Turkey baster or syringe full of fluid seems like a risk I’m not comfortable with.

As to the overflow: unless fluid has been added at some point prior to the brake job and compression of the caliper(s) I can’t imagine why any fluid would spill out the top.  The contamination aspect can easily avoided as well by ensuring you use clean tools and a clean place to store the fluid you pull out.  To me, it’s just not worth it.

Danny is spot on about mixing and compatibility of brake fluids.  To throw a wrench in things, there is also DOT 5.1 (not to be confused with DOT5)  DOT 5.1 is reformulated DOT 5 that WILL mix with both 3 and 4.  That said, most fluid manufacturers advise against mixing, but that may just be to sell more fluid :-)

I guess I’m going to flush the brake lines.  I imagine that the fluid is original to the car since the tires were (20 years old).  I haven’t done a fluid change myself since in about 40 years.  I’ll start reading about it now to refresh my memory.  

I’ve only got one brake apart now.  Should I drain the lines before I do the pads?   Just need to know the correct sequence.   I guess go ahead and get entire car up on jacks too?   Here’s where I’m at.  

Change out eh pads first on all four corners or however many you're doing then bleed the system. I'd use a pressure bleeder so you could do it yourself and to also make sure you have enough fluid so you don't introduce air into the system. Then if you need, have a helper do the final step. Start with the right rear, left rear, right front, then left front.

I have sometimes thought it would be nice to have different colors for brake fluid.  Then, when bleeding, you could tell when you have flushed all the old fluid out.

I’ll do some research on pressure bleeder and buy enough fluid.  I’ve decided to only change out front pads as there is minimal wear and I believe that’s where I’m getting my squeal.  Unless there’s a good reason to change rear pads.  
do I have my jack stands in the right place?   I like to put the hydraulic jack under the area I’m working just as a backup.  

This tool works well for pushing the pistons back.

@Cartod posted:

I’ll do some research on pressure bleeder and buy enough fluid.  I’ve decided to only change out front pads as there is minimal wear and I believe that’s where I’m getting my squeal.  Unless there’s a good reason to change rear pads.  
do I have my jack stands in the right place?   I like to put the hydraulic jack under the area I’m working just as a backup.  

This is the one I bought and it came with the correct size cap for the reservoir which, IIRC, is a 45mm size threaded cap. Maybe someone here can confirm what size is on the VW reservoir to make sure you get the right one.

https://www.amazon.com/Motive-...e/dp/B0002KM5L0?th=1

@Michael McKelvey posted:

I have sometimes thought it would be nice to have different colors for brake fluid.  Then, when bleeding, you could tell when you have flushed all the old fluid out.

You can easily tell when the old brownish yellow fluid is replaced by new clear fluid. I bought a bleeder bottle, it looks like a bike water bottle with a clear silicone hose on it.

https://www.amazon.com/Motive-...e/dp/B008C8O026?th=1

@Robert M I used a brake fluid bottle cap for the later VW remote reservoir, threading a Schrader valve in the top. I also have a larger one which fits my Cayman, and the Girling/Wilwood style cap, I guess it's 45mm or so. I did the same thing with that cap. I put no more than 10 pounds of pressure on the cap from my compressor.

@Cartod DO NOT disconnect and bleed the lines. It's not necessary. If you suck out MOST of the fluid from the reservoir, it only takes a few minutes(maybe one?) to flush the old with the new through the bleeders, in the order that Robert M detailed.

If you use low pressure, you can do the whole thing by yourself in very little time.

@Alan Merklin posted:

I have high end " Neal " disc brakes all the way around on the Outlaw project, they have been sitting new on the chassis for 8 years , the caliper pistons had a bit of brake fluid weeping and frozen pistons, thought I'd rebuild them only to discover Neal Brakes has been out of business for ....7 years , Looks like I'll be buying complete front and rear disc brake package$.

Alan, I wouldn't throw them away. If you replace them, I may be interested in what you have. I'd like to look at them first.

@DannyP posted:

You can easily tell when the old brownish yellow fluid is replaced by new clear fluid. I bought a bleeder bottle, it looks like a bike water bottle with a clear silicone hose on it.

https://www.amazon.com/Motive-...e/dp/B008C8O026?th=1

@Robert M I used a brake fluid bottle cap for the later VW remote reservoir, threading a Schrader valve in the top. I also have a larger one which fits my Cayman, and the Girling/Wilwood style cap, I guess it's 45mm or so. I did the same thing with that cap. I put no more than 10 pounds of pressure on the cap from my compressor.

@Cartod DO NOT disconnect and bleed the lines. It's not necessary. If you suck out MOST of the fluid from the reservoir, it only takes a few minutes(maybe one?) to flush the old with the new through the bleeders, in the order that Robert M detailed.

If you use low pressure, you can do the whole thing by yourself in very little time.

Those are great options too. Sometimes it takes a few tries to see what works best for these cars. Motive suggests 10-15psi but no more.

Another thing to do is when you first hook up the pressure bleeder is to pressurize the system without any fluid in the bottle to make sure there are no leaks. Then let out the air, fill with fluid, and pressurize the system again and get started.

I ordered the bleeder bottle and anti squeal gel.  I think I’d like to also chamfer the leading edges too. Is there any harm in doing both?  
Now my only decision is Dot 3 or 4.  

You can certainly both chamfer the leading edge AND apply the anti-squeel gel.  It doesn't take much gel so don't go wild with it, just a thin film, let the pad sit for a minute or two and then install.  It'll slightly change color/get dull as it cures - that's normal.

The chamfering really has more to do with the composition of the pads themselves - more metallic pads tend to chatter/squeel a bit more.  If you go this route, try to get the chamfer close to 45º and only as deep as 1/3 - 1/2 max of the pad thickness.  No additional points for exactness, here, just do the best you can.  The gel coating on the backside of the pad is usually sufficient.

Someone should chime in with the proper "bedding" procedure for new pads.  That works well, too.

I bought the big motive bleeder bottle and it fits the Porsches but the speedster brake fluid cap is much smaller.   I like the idea of using positive pressure so I can do it myself.   Unfortunately it comes with the 45 mm top.  Fortunately I have all winter to get this right.   now  I guesss I need to thread a Schrader valve onto an oil cap that fits?   Like Dannyp said  

Here's your reservoir cap:

https://www.jbugs.com/product/113611351.html

I used a quick-connect fitting on the cap (Home Depot) to connect the hose when I made my bleeder.  That way, you can screw the cap on and then connect the hose without twisting it.  It also lets you have different caps with the same fitting and use the bleeder on other cars.  Seems like all our cars here have different reservoir caps.  

@Gordon Nichols posted:

Here's your reservoir cap:

https://www.jbugs.com/product/113611351.html

I used a quick-connect fitting on the cap (Home Depot) to connect the hose when I made my bleeder.  That way, you can screw the cap on and then connect the hose without twisting it.  It also lets you have different caps with the same fitting and use the bleeder on other cars.  Seems like all our cars here have different reservoir caps.  

Would you mind posting a photo of the QC fitting and how it is attached to the cap? I'm sure it will help the visual learners here.