What separates the $65k 356 from the $300k 356?

It's only "original" once.

As far as the economics of it, there is no explanation. These are normal sports cars (glorified Volkswagens really), prone to horrific rust, with no racing pedigree, selling for six figures.

OTOH, Volkswagens are starting to round the bend into the surreal as well. Whoever thought we would live in a world of a six-figure microbus?

This is a speculative bubble.

I think the formula is simple.... TIME : )   I find the A or pre A series are fetching more dollars the other models are less wanted at this time. ... so more time will make them worth more IMO. 

I had an original a long time ago and I was going to look at one locally a few years ago. That  local car was available but the cost of restoration starting with a car that has everything was quite high when you consider that these cars are rusting before your eyes and many areas that are unseen have rusted and are weak, but you cannot clearly see it unless you strip off a lot of stuff.  I think to restore a car back then was at least $150K 

So a fully restored car by a reputable car shop can be ridiculous but if you rebuild any car your into mucho denaros anyway. Just saying

The car pictured is pretty much what I once had, namely a '61 S90, white w/ red interior. Paid $2k for it I think but not sure, maybe in 1970-something.  Letting that car get away was a BIG mistake.

"What separates the $65k 356 from the $300k 356?"

A wallet-off restoration.

First, everything that can be unscrewed, unbolted, and unriveted is removed from the car.

Then, the owner is strapped onto a rotisserie and every last dollar stripped away.

"What separates the $65k 356 from the $300k 356?"

 about $235K, +/- . . . . 

I'm surely no speculator in 356 commodities, but it seems that the primary difference in value is model. Coupe v. Speedster v. Cabriolet. We all agree that no coupe, or cab, can presently match the value of a similarly-restored, or similarly-unmolested Speedster.

Seems a Speedster, even in the rudest running condition, can do no less than about $200K these days. HOWEVER, provenance and matching numbers seem to be the catapults that are propelling Speedsters into the insanosphere. 

In November, the early-'57 "survivor" pictured here was auctioned at Hilton Head, and hammered at $605,000. I don't know its future, but, if refurbished, wouldn't the new owner have to see about $800K to turn even a small profit? The values seem to range most wildly in the Speedster, while the coupes seem to be priced more rationally.

These are only opinions, buttressed by interest and observation, and, thus, are ripe for puncture by other evidence... ��

In the weird world of "collectables", that car, nicely restored (for way into 6-figures) is worth way less than it is as a ratty contraption.

Can't drive it. Ain't much to look at, and it can't cook. It's a bubble.

This makes me feel a little better about my fake speedster.  As long as I can drive it, I won't care if it can cook. I've reached a point in my life where I have to admit I'm never gonna have the crazy money I would need to own a real one. "Don't worry. Be happy"

 I guess there's always the lottery, but I never but a ticket.  So.....

"I guess there's always the lottery, but I never buy a ticket.  So....."

Well, you really should, Al.  Who knows what may happen? 

Cory, you've pretty much hit the nail.  Some of it has to do with model (pre-A, A, B and C) and like any other collectible car, matching numbers make all the difference.  Many current 356 owners of "desirables" have owned them for decades and could never afford to duplicate their cars today, but look, instead, to using them to buttress their retirement when they can no longer drive (unless their kids get the car, one way or another). 

I honestly can't understand what all the fuss about "Barn Finds" is all about.  One guy in my club (who happens to deal in antiques) actually found a late 50's 356 coupe in a barn.  He wasn't looking for one, but it fell in his lap and had a nice coat of surface rust.  He was going to restore it until he got the quote of something well north of $150,000 and decided, instead, to send it to an auction where it fetched about that same amount, reaping him over $100,000 profit for doing almost nothing.  He was thrilled, the buyer was thrilled and the auction audience was probably apoplectic that they didn't get it - I dunno.  Here it was at a club event a while back:

http://www.typ356ne.org/photos...php?/236/category/17

I mean......   Really?

I often hear the saying about unrestored / barn finds: "they are only original once". There's something nostalgic about knowing that almost everything in your car, barring mechanical bits, is the way it left the factory. 

Sometimes we cannot recreate originality, especially the smells the classics omit, like the odor of the leather seats. 

I feel I appreciate both. I get just as excited seeing a completely restored car on the lawn at Pebble as I do with a preserved / unrestored classic. 

The only problem I have with the restored vehicles, is that more often than not, they are presented better than they would originally off the factory floor. 

Was a PCA member for 25+ years owning various models 356 thru 911. I enjoyed the cars for what they were, fun daily drivers. The guys I've met through the SOC (down-to-earth good guys) remind me of the reason I finally left the PCA fold. Been there...done that!

All the to-do about restored-unrestored P-cars, to me it's all Emperor's Clothing. 

Is an unrestored, original, early replica worth more than a restored early replica?

What about a barn find replica?  These are deep questions...

Time will tell:-)

Then an early, pan based, unrestored, 1300 cc, single carb, swing axle, four wheel drum brake, crashbox, gelcoat only, replica barn find is, in fact, potentially the most valuable replica of all replicas!

Astounding how we worked through this.

Bob wrote: Then an early, pan based, unrestored, 1300 cc, single carb, swing axle, four wheel drum brake, crashbox, gelcoat only, replica barn find is, in fact, potentially the most valuable replica of all replicas!

..........I've owned a good number of these valuable and nearly priceless barn finds ( One took and entire afternoon do dig out in Wisconsin) Somehow,  I still count on my Pension and Social Security  ~

We went to pick up a unassembled CMC project last summer ...This complete original speedster was sitting in the sellers workshop.  This rust free original was last registered in 2003. Connie and I offered $85k hence it still just sits there.... ......

I wonder what he would take for the Formula "V"?  Would be a lot of fun at Lime Rock and Thompson.

That guy has WAY, WAY more "stuff" in his garage than I ever could squeeze in...

He has 5  - 6 Formule  Vees and tons of parts too

MusbJim posted:

All the to-do about restored-unrestored P-cars, to me it's all Emperor's Clothing. 

But your not a Star bellied Sneetch anymore

Or a  Quick Digesting Sneet or a  Hillside Runner or a  Bongo Wegee Bird or a  Blue Bellied Pole Vaulter !.    Jim.... I'd love to know the story/description of a Star Bellied Sneetch.

Bruce

MusbJim posted:

Was a PCA member for 25+ years owning various models 356 thru 911. I enjoyed the cars for what they were, fun daily drivers. The guys I've met through the SOC (down-to-earth good guys) remind me of the reason I finally left the PCA fold. Been there...done that!

All the to-do about restored-unrestored P-cars, to me it's all Emperor's Clothing. 

It is hard to be a real person and be yourself... you need to enjoy things and not let things own you.  Hopefully in my white hair years I can be a real person and BE NICE.  One of my close friends once said to me... hey lets pick up the good things from each other... best statement I heard yet

That '62 356B S90 was my car here from Hawaii.  I sold it to a broker in Nevada who auctioned it off at the Leake Auction in Dallas and that buyer put it on the blocks at BJ in Scottsdale this past January.  Funny thing is that in their description it says Oslo blue paint but the paint on it is more of a Bali blue (OG color according to CoA is Oslo).  356 prices fluctuate and A's do always bring more money.  Funny, I think I miss my Intermeccanica Convertible D Replica more than I miss this car...

MUSBJIM majestically wrote, and IAM-RAY unabashedly copied: " The guys I've met through the SOC (down-to-earth good guys) remind me of the reason I finally left the PCA fold.

You know.......I've never quite gotten that "down to earth" thing down, let alone being considered a "good guy".  It makes me feel self-concious.....Something my German Grandma, Annie Deshler, would never have approved of.  Must be my New England Yankee heritage creeping back in.  Isn't this the way people are supposed to act?  I come here, like Stan and many others, because you guys are cool and unassuming and make me feel at home.  

My brother is dead.  I loved him a lot.  YOU guys are now my family.  I don't give a rats Pitutity what the PCA guys think.  I just want to share good times with car guys I like and love.  

Gordon

The Speedstah Guy from New England

Sorry......   Got a little carried away there.  Late at night and one Jameson too many.

Here's to YOU, PCA guys!

I think what Gordon really meant was.......

Tis that Irish whiskey me thinks....

I've had more fun from the get-go with my knucklehead SOC friends (both East Coast & West Coast) than all my years in PCA & POC. My personal opinion (based on my experience and observations) SOC = Down-To-Earth folk, PCA = A culture of exclusivity and one-upmanship.

Back & forth banter on this site is like hanging out on the back porch with a bunch of your friends and trading jibes.

Looking forward to Carlisle this upcoming May to catch up with old friends & meeting new friends!  

808donn posted:

That '62 356B S90 was my car here from Hawaii.  I sold it to a broker in Nevada who auctioned it off at the Leake Auction in Dallas and that buyer put it on the blocks at BJ in Scottsdale this past January.  Funny thing is that in their description it says Oslo blue paint but the paint on it is more of a Bali blue (OG color according to CoA is Oslo).  356 prices fluctuate and A's do always bring more money.  Funny, I think I miss my Intermeccanica Convertible D Replica more than I miss this car...

Here it is sitting in my garage in Hawaii.  The other pic is of my long lost "D" that I so do miss...

Love that D car a lot.