What's the Diff!

I have been looking for a Speedster now for 8 months and getting close to purchasing one soon... But I would really like to know what are the exact differences between a say VS, JPS, SAW and an orginal 57 speedster. Besides the obvious Gentlemen engine frame and trany stuff. The cosmetic stuff. body and emblems as such. I love the replicas and I just want to know....

Thanks,

Dave Galvan

Wow..that's a tough one; I guess you'll have to search the forum since all this has been discussed ad nauseum. In a nutshell VS & JPS are VW pan based, basically the same car but JPS is a little more upscale, in terms of quality control and, of copurse, cost, VS is a good car but is manufactured in larger quantities. Beck is a tube frame VW powered and more upscale & expensive than VS or JPS. SAW is like a Beck but Subaru powered and is a more weathertight car (Convertible D as opposed to Speedster, it has roll up windows), more powerful, efficient and modern and with better heating. New Intermecs are even more expensive and are tube frame and VW powered and are also great cars in their own right. As it's always said here; there's no right and wrong car...all are good but different and cater to people with different expectations. Good luck with your educated decision.

So, to clarify, you are asking what the cosmetic difference is between a JPS, Vintage, and SAW?

I guess you need to explain more about what your asking. Are you asking the quality difference, or the stuff added on the car? Your going to have to word what it is your asking with more examples for me to understand what it is your trying to compare about them.

Or are you trying to figure out what style you want, GT,GS, Carrera and such?

my point is this, I would like to know what the difference between a clean looking VS and an orginal 356. if you had all emblems and stuff. I am not looking for diff between VS and JPS and SAW. thanks anyway.. :-) How could a reg guy look at this VS and say ahhhh that is a replica?

Dave

LOL, this may be a good thread. We mention things here and there, but I don't think anyone has ever really listed the differences or maybe we should call it "how to spot a replica versus the real thing"

First of all the real ones did not have an emergency brake on the tunnel. It was a "T" handle brake under the dash to the left of the steering column.

You could have them put it on this way at JPS or SAW, but I don't believe Vintage would, because this is getting a little too much hassle for them from the standard build.

The tunnel itself in the original had a square look to it, while most replicas are not, except SAW who uses a very close to original floor and tunnel.

The floor and footwells are not the same on a JPS or Vintage because some alteration was necessary from the original to make the VW pan work. What's the difference? Well it narrows the foot wells a little, but honestly it isn't all that bad to me.

Now the fiberglass body has some giveaways also, such as the wheel well edges. The original had a piece of "rolled" steel edge in this area and the replicas don't bother to replicate this, except I have seen several IM's that people actually had Henry duplicate this!!!

Of course you will always be able to spot the SAW car, because the engine cover instead of the back seat.

If you see the "super hubcaps" with an 90 degree edge on the center part then it is an original hubcap on a non original rim. The original let that lip drop in and not show, like the moon caps.

Overriders tubes, no ones are the exact diameter as the original. IM and now SAW make reproductions but they are about 3mm smaller or 3mm larger in diameter. Why? Because the originals were 1 and 1/8 diameter and no one has tooling to bend that size. Its an odd size nowadays and would also be a special order just for the tubing, and no one wants to pay the cost of making new tooling just to make those bends.

I'm going to stop here and let some other people add to the list.

Remember were not cutting them down, some things are important to people and some things just aren't.

The SAW dashboard is a dead giveaway that it is not original. The guages are somewhat larger than the originals and the combination guage (four gauges contained in one face) is useful but not correct. This statement is true of both the Speedster and Cabriolet models.

Also, although the SAW cars are equipped with 5 lug wheels, they are not wide 5 which I believe they should be for the 56/57 model years.

The convertible top on the Cabrio folds flatter than the original does since the mechanism is an entirely new design. This was a decision made during design phase, that while the look is not original, it provides a more pleasing line when the top is down; I agree on this point.

Also, as Steve pointed out, there is a drastic difference behind the seats due to the midship engine mounting.

If the observer crawls underneath a SAW car, the differences in engine, transmission (mounted behind the engine as a Spyder is) and suspension components bear no resemblance to the original.

Most folks who are not Porsche afficianados will not know what they are looking at and you, as an owner, will probably be the one who is most cognizant of the many variations from the original cars, regardless of who built it.

Hoss didn't mention the stock 137hp engine with 4 speed automatic or the optional 165hp and 5 speed manual transmission. There's a possibility that SAW may also have the WRX turbo 250hp version in the near future.

And I didn't mention that the bulkhead between the trunk (rear) and cabin is wood, not fiberglass or steel.

The clutch, brake and accelerator pedals are suspended from the top, as you can see looking at the first photo. The look is incorrect, but the effectiveness is just great. I'm not a heel and toe speed shifter, but I think it would be easy.

If you like A/C, it works great but also looks wrong if you are looking for originality. The outlets in the center and either side of the dash do not have a period correct look.

The SAW has a air vent in the center position for AC, if you look at his pictures you can see it, and this is where the interior light was on the original coupe and cabriolet.

Oh and my clock is not technically in the correct postion for the 356A model. It would have been in the center of the glove box door, but I didn't want that, because it looks goofy and it would have been not as clean of an install for the 12volt power line. The clock you would put in the glove box would be watch batter powered and also would not be backlit. What would have normally been there is the optional ashtray.

Giveaways for non original vs. original 356's would first be the exhaust system (unless you use dual quiet packs for VW's which are also available for 356's). Also if you look through the holes in the rims in originals you'll notice the large drum brakes on 356's; you don't see that in replicas unless you buy "Drumskins" by Fibersteel. Replica gauges are a dead giveaway as well as the other things Steve and Hoss mentioned. Also, check the wiper arms which are very particular in 356's, you can spot VW wiper arms immediately. And, lastly, by looking underneath the cars you'll see they look different.

Headrests on the originals were added on options and attached differently and were round if you looked at the end profile of the headrests. They were a real pain and not very effective so most originals that even had them don't have them on.

The heater control on the original was in the middle of the tunnel and it was a funky looking round thing. Most replicas don't bother to duplicate this, but look at Jim Wards car, I believe he has a picture of one in his car. I was tempted to put one in and make it the satellite radio head support, but I instead decided I wanted to hide that most of the time.

I love all the little details, its kind of a goofy thing, but a lot of people even have heater slides. I have them and there is nothing going to them, silly but fun in my opinion.

Also, I don't believe originals have the round hump where the shifter is. I think it is just flat there.

Aside from appearance, the bodies are fiberglass not steel so no rust. The brakes are generally disks not drums. Intermeccanicas can be had with rack and pinion steering, and Porsche 911 suspension for significantly better handling (not sure about others). Originals had about 90hp where any of these cars can approach 200hp.

As for appearance. If you want your car to look exactly like a Porsche, IM can accomplish that for you, from through the overrider exhaust to correct tunnel mounted heat control. However, an IM is not a Porsche, it is an IM, and a JPS is not a Porsche, it is a JPS. Each maker builds a car that is a bit different from the others. None are exactly "better" than any others. They are just different. I think, like everything else, you get what you pay for, so you need to begin by deciding what your budget is, and then, what your priorities are for spending that budget.

Also, either visit the builders, or try to find owners of their cars near you. Don't make a decision without driving the different cars! We all think our car is the best. You need to decide for yourself.

The other thing to remember is that the more detailed you get in the replication the more you run up the price. I have more then a couple of thousand just in getting parts on the car that aren't necessary, but original.

Sunvisors
Overrider Tubes
Original Stereo upgraded
Speaker grills
Heater slides


None of these are really necessary and add to the cost quickly. But it was part of the fun of building one for me.

I want to thank everyone for their insight and knowledge here. The purpose of my initial question was to REALLY see what each of us felt are the specific "Diff" between the cars we love to drive and look at verse the cars that are over priced and in most cases full of rust... I believe that as an owner of a replica we have the unique ability to create our own version of reality here, and what WE invision as a sweet ride, along the way gathering waves from adorning fans wishing they were riding shotgun with us!

Thanks for the thread folks! You guys ROCK!

Dave Galvan

It's funny; I just took my VS out to do some errands and while parking I stumbled upon a gentleman who used to have an original '61 (probably a Cabriolet) which he later retrofitted with a used 4 cam engine for $350.00 including installation and the blown stock engine (!) Those were the days!! He sold it because the car was so fast he feared he might kill himself with it. At first he thought my car was a real one...After talking for a while it turns out we're related. That's a coincidence!

Another fairly dependable tell-tale difference, originals had a fuel filter and reserve tank valve at the base of the umbrella brake handle down near the linkage tunnel. Also, most pan based replicas retain the two levers the donor VW used for heater and defrost control, whereas the frame based builders will add the original looking winder control knob. And in addition to the gauges not being exactly right in appearance they are generally mounted in the wrong order. In most cases the speedometer is on the wrong side because the aftermarket speedometer has too short of a cable to reach the wheel if you mount it on the opposite end of the cluster. And the pedals in most replicas are VW and totally different than Porsche.

Regarding the "welt" or bead in the wheel well. My car was on display at the Ventura German Autofest in early September (I didn't enter it in the peoples' choice competition). Many of of the attendees would come up and immediatly feel the wheel well to see if it had the bead. It was kind of funny, all these Porsche mavens and they couldn't tell it was a replica by the brake lever, no fuel valve the order of the gauges and the VW Pedal assembly. I told one guy that the bead had been worn off by everybody feeling it.

Ricardo, Isn't everbody in Puerto Rico related? As Hillary said it takes an island.

Well Bill; it's certainly a small place (100 miles by 35 miles) and you do bump into friends, family and acquaintances fairly often but officially, the last Federal Census indicates there's almost 4 million people living here (and that's not counting illegal aliens, just as in the mainland). That's a lot for such a small place, especially in the San Juan Metro Area where the density is even higher; you'd be surprised!

It was fun, I love this stuff. The differences are fun, and to me, not a put down on anyones cars at all.