wheel adapters 4 lug to wide 5?

I have 4 lug 4 wheel disc brakes on a vintage speedster and I would like to run the wide 5 steel rims, does any of know if an adapter to where I could use my existing brakes, I seen some VW adapters for drum brakes that I dont know if they will fit with the caliper, or would I have to change my whole braking set up to the wide 5 hubs and brakes, any inside would be great! Thanks, Matt

Matt,
Easy there buddy. You're heading into a potentially hazardous area here. First, I'm not sure on the adapters, but most folks caution against them to begin with. Second, you'll have to consider any increase in rear track with adapters, wheel offset, and possibly a rotor change. I just converted from four lug to wide 5 this summer and I'm still dealing with it. It is NOT a simple transition. Well, at least it wasn't for my set up (disc front, drum rear). There is a thread on here you can find with the search that is titled Wide 5, or something. It pretty much recounts the trials of my conversion.
All that said, it can be done. I am more than willing to answer any and all questions for you. I would start be seeing if there is a wide 5 rotor available for your brake set up because not all rotors will fit all calipers. A little more info on your car and brake set up would be helpful. Fire away with any questions.

if you're using 4 lug drums then the steps are as follows:

font:
buy 1966-67 front drums, hardware, wheel cylinders, bearings and shoes. use your stock backing plates. done.

rear:
buy 1966-67 rear drums, hardware, wheel cylinders, bearings and shoes. use your stock backing plates. cut off 12mm of the stock 4 lug drum to use as a spacer on the axle bolt (36mm). IIRC, i also used a thick (~5mm) washer as a spacer as well to allow the drum to not be in direct contact with the outer bearing seal.

overall - it was generally a bolt on affair, but you have to consider what to do once you have the 5x205 bolt pattern. what wheels? I'm running 5.5" with 185-55-15 yoko tires. They will not fit a non-wide speedy without narrowing the front and rear. I'm tucking all 4 corners now and have 3" narrowed rear (1.5" each side - a massive project in itself) and a 3.5" narrowed front end (not hard, but time consuming as i integrated a triangulated front sub-frame / bumper mounts.)

Does "can o' worms" mean anything to ya Mat?
I also went through the drill last year at the cost of about a thousand bucks, but I got the look and performance I wanted.
My car is an '05 VS with swing axle. After plenty of research, I changed out the rear drums and swapped the front 4 lug discs to wide 5 discs from CB.
Like Mickey says.... Fire away with the questions.
Good Luck, Ernie

Paul - Sounds like huge step back in performance going from 4 wheel disc to 4 wheel drums --- for look of wide-five. Guess it for show and not go - ok.

Obviously NOBODY, except Mickey, read your post closely. And he's a bit gun-shy as of late when it comes to wide fives.

I understand that you have four wheel disc brakes with the rotors drilled for four lug wheels. You want to switch to five lug wheels (steel wheels as you mentioned NOT steel drums . . . ) and you want to know if you can simply use those 1/4 steel adapter in order to accomplish the task, correct?

The answer is yes, they will fit the rotor hat and the wide five pattern will clear the rotors without fouling most calipers, but you need to have a lug nut thread depth equal to it's diameter in order to insure safety. Just remember to measure carefully to be sure that the outer lugs for the wheels clear the calipers that you're using. They clear mine, easily.

Attaching the adapters to the rotor is easy, use the longer reach lugs from a 914 and some Lock-tite and the adapter will stay forever. Nice and tight. For the outside lugs that hold the wheels on, depending on clearance behind them and caliper positioning, use longer lugs as well, Lock-tite, and an inside lock nut on the lug itself where it threads through the adapter.

If you have the necessary clearance, this method will keep everything together for you. A periodic check wouldn't hurt. There will surely be some issues in balance and run-out since the flat plate adapters are just mass produced where ever it's cheapest. You may even have to grind some material here and there to "true" them up. Have a good speed shop do an on-car balance for you, check the run out and try not to kill yourself.

Thanks Guys for your imput, I was really trying to see if I could make adapters work for the mean time with my existing 4 lug disc brakes. Then possibly be watching for a wide 5 disc brake set up for the front and rear. Teamevil were you able to run the the aluminum drum covers to cover the adapter plate and lugs or is there not enought clearance? Also does anyone recommed a specific adapter for this?

I'm assuming that you have IRS?
If so, and you're running rear discs, and it's a classic speedster we're talking about, you won't be able to run wide fives with an adapter. You don't have enough fender clearance unless you narrow the rear axles. With and IRS/disc combo the maximum wheel width is 4-1/2" without adapters.

oops - i missed the 4 wheel disc piece.

forget my comments as they only apply to a conversion from 4 lug drums.

I ended up going with dropped wide 5 discs in the front.

apparently the 4-vw5 lug wheel adapters (stamped steel) cause interference with the calipers. you could try to search thesamba.com forums.

Right now in the rear it is a none IRS with rear disc's with 5 1/2 rim.

I just went out and bolted an adapted onto my Ghia, it has Girling calipers, but they're not much different from ATE. If you're running the Rabbit calipers you may have better luck and can let more thread come through. The adapter cleared the caliper with a scooch to spare. This means that you would have to use very short lugs that didn't protrude past the backside of the adapter to hold the wheel on. VERY unsafe unless you put a quick tack weld on the back of each lug. NOW you're talking a big ol' pain in the ass when you get that inevitable flat tire unless you carry a four lug spare. The adapters are 1/4 inch thick so add that to your beam width with brakes.

But, you no longer have enough room to fit the wheels and tires inside the well as Nuckles said. Unless you're willing to pie cut and widen the fenders a bit, not flares, just a slightly wider fender you're out of luck AND room.

Maybe live with what you got for now and save up for the good stuff later. STILL, you may run into what Mickey did after all is paid for.

As for wheel skins, the more that you stack between the rotor hat and the wheel, the wider things get.

So . . . you're DOOMED ! ! ! ! !


Forum Prick

Matt,
I can say with 99% confidence you CANNOT run the aluminum covers over an adapter. I looked into that when I was weighing my options.
This is a big project. Not technically (because if I can do it anyone can) but cost wise.
Did you come up with any rotor options? The one thing you may be able to do is find a blank rotor that will fit you caliper and then have them drilled for a wide 5. Then as already mentioned, you have the space issues. I don't know what wheel you're running currently but if it's the stock VW wheel the positive offset on those is almost nothing and there is more positive offset with the wide 5 wheels. Don't let anyone tell you different because I know there is a difference and it could be up to an inch which would entail having the wheels recentered which means more money. Proceed with caution here. You may want to consider 4.5 rim instead to make up some of the difference. You can also do a search on wheels here on the forum and see what options there are. I would recommend looking for 4 bolt alternatives. If I had to do it over again I would have just found a different wheel but, I'm a really stupid stubborn person so I just kept shelling out cash everytime I hit a bump in the process.

There is a discussion on theSamba about going from 4 lug to wide 5.

It seems to be as easy as using Thing drums.

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=378211

CIP1 sells blank rotors and drums.

Pelican Parts has adapters made from Billet blanks.

Bullet-proof, but about $100 each (yes, I have all four).

Pelican is great to do business with, too.

Here's what I would do, if I had it to do again:

Forget wide 5s. It'll be WAY expensive to do what you want now that you've got what you've got. You have good brakes right now, but you just don't like the wheel selection available to you.

EMPI makes the rotors you are running in a Porsche drilling. You could use your current set-up, and replace all 4 rotors with the Porsche-drilled parts.

Buy a set of repop Fuchs in 0" offset. Your tire clearance will improve, it'll be a fantastic look, and you'll look instantly "classier". Take a peek at all the shots of Dale Bates' car in magazines and on calendars- it's a look that is hard to beat, for a lot less money that a full-on 4 wheel disc wide 5 set-up (ask me how I know).

Wide5s, IMHO, are just about a necessity on a SPyder.

Speedster, not so much, it seems many wheels look good on them.

Gordon, IIRC, your adapters are for the 5 X 130 pattern, and not the wide5 X 205 pattern that is being sought here.

If you really want the look, and some brake performance, do it once and do it right.

That being said, CSP makes excellent parts for both front and rear wide5 conversion, which I am sure are zero offset, at least in the front. The fronts bolt on to a standard ball joint front end with drum brake spindles. They are available in solid disc and new vented rotors. I have stock '67 drum brakes on the rear. My rear uses short axles, and both front and rear wheels are backspaced accordingly( and then powdercoated). Contact Greg at Vintage Spyders for the wheels. The CSP parts aren't cheap either, but are worth it as I've had no trouble with mine for 15K miles.

I have drumskins front and rear from Russ at Fibersteel. The rear fit fine, but the fronts wouldn't clear the caliper. So my friend cut off the offending part just beyond the bolt circle of the wheel studs. Looks fine, and my rotors are still getting air through the wheel slots. The cut off area is barely noticeable unless you look for it, then you see the rotor and caliper. A small price to pay to get the look AND some stopping power.

Yup, Dan's absolutely right - I have 5-spoke Fuchs on a 5X130 pattern.

Sorry - I didn't mean to cornfuse the issue, but I agree with both Dale Bates and Stan Galat on the look of Fuchs on a Speedster, as well as the necessity for wide-5's on a Spyder for the same reason.

gn

Bite your tongue, Danny - Fuchs look great on a spyder!

Not "right" but good and when they look that good baby you don't ever need to be "right"!!

Also, a set of Mahle gas burners would look good on a spyder.

angela

Ok, all Spyders EXCEPT Angela's black bad-ass beauty!

Good enough?