Why are so many of our cars for sale?

End of the top down season in most parts of the country. Some folks just have to have that certain color combo after waiting 30 years to buy.

I have to agree. There appears to be a cycle for Speedster sales which coincides with the seasons.

 

Ted

I agree with all that has been stated. I think if someone enters the hobby thinking they are getting a reliable cool everyday driver they quickly realize they made a mistake. I bought mine from VS at the bottom of the recession so i got a price WAY below what an entry level car is today. However between upgrades, accessories, and a top end rebuild at 7K I am well over 35k invested total and probably a light weight at that. I do drive mine everyday in the "summer season." In the big picture the enjoyment is well worth it. When i drive SWIFTY I visit another world without trouble and everything is beautiful. Sounds a little like some trips I took in the 60's.

 

 

So since I have roll up windows and the car is very drivable in the winter months the winter season should, in theory, bring a good price...

 

Okay lets start the bidding!

I wish the Spyders owners would do the same. They don't seem to come up as often. With a little lower pricing would be nice too.

I bet most spyder owners don't  drive theirs as often either.

I think there is something to folks having a dream and not realizing it through ownwership.  Maybe the idea of owning a Speedster is romantisized to the point that very few cars can make the grade.  I know I have thought about one for many years but I am patient and do a lot of servicing to car myself.  if that was not the case I could see where some of the things that go wrong or have been neglected might wear on someone.

I agree Frank; I think some people buy a Speedster envisioning a comfortable top down, go any where car with the maintenance requirements of something fairly new, while the reality comes up somewhat short- they don't handle or ride as well as a newer car, are leaky in the rain, the heater sucks and it spends far more time in the shop than a new car. The romance doesn't fit the reality.

The very thing that many of us appreciate about the car - the level of involvement required - is something many of the Speedster dreamers are unprepared for.  This level of involvement covers both the driving experience as well as maintenance requirements.  I think one reason that there are fewer Spyders for sale, as a percentage, is that most Spyder owners have a better idea of what they are getting into ahead of time.  While Speedsters are roomier and generally softer than Spyders, it is still best to approach them with a mindset similar to that of a motorcyclist rather than a new car buyer.

Im considering getting a speedster, so Ive started doing some research. I am surprised that you guys dont consider them reliable. I always thought the bugs were cars that required almost no maintenance. Could you guys elaborate on that somewhat.

They were reliable compared to Detroit iron - but not compared to the Honda's and Toyota's that started being popular (and kicking Detroit's butt) in 1975 - not so much.  Japanese cars easily go 150k miles with just normal oil changes every 5k miles.  Plus they sport heat, AC and >24 mpg. The 40 year old VW engine specifies 3k oil changes and frequent (6-10k) valve adjustments plus near all leak oil.

Is there a newer engine that fits relatively easily?

Many of our cars are modified far beyond the original performance capabilities of VW Beetles.  The more horse power, the more maintenance required.

 

Also, these cars are hand built in small quantities and the quality of the individual parts available to the manufacturers is problematic.  That adds to the potential problems.

 

EDIT: "Is there a newer engine that fits relatively easily?"

 

A lot of folks are switching to Subaru power plants because the layout is similar.  That said, you need to add the complexity of water-cooling to a car that did not originally have it.

 

Don't let this scare you of if you don't mind the occasional need to tweak something.  However, if you don't know the difference between a flat-head screwdriver and a phillips-head one, these are not for you.

Subaru is becoming the most popular substitute.  Their 2L to 3.5L engines are flat boxer engines with water cooling, electronics and FI. They support heat and AC. Audi/VW 1.8L water cooled straight 4s are also used. You'll see the VW aircooled T4 (Type 4 as used in Porsche 914 and Vans --- 1.7, 1.8 and 2L) used too by those wanting an aircooled sound. They have tough botton ends and even a true oil filter - carbs frequently replace their electronic FI though - still require valve adjustments though.

it would almost be a daily driver. Maybe the newer subaru engine might be a good idea.

 

What is the cost of an engine and then the conversion?

I'm surprised that know one has put a Suzuki hayabusa motor in a speedster yet.
Sallywag a subie will cost you around 9 to 10k when all said and done, at least that is what I was quoted on my older brothers Vanagon and that comes with a 40k warranty.

 

 

Scallywag- You have to remember that the Beetle's technological roots go back to the 1930's; and although they were "dressed up" a little along the way, the basic platform hasn't changed. While they are very reliable, that's only when they're properly taken care of. These cars come from a time when 100,000 miles on an engine was a big deal; now we expect any newer car we drive to go at least twice that, and with way less maintenance. And a lot of members here are running engines with 2 and 3 (and even more!) times more power than a stock, single carbed 1600, and that means a little more maintenance as well. If you know anybody with an old motorcycle, you'll have witnessed how they always seem to be in the garage "tinkering" with something. 

 

And yes, a Subaru engine is the logical choice, but for some of us, the constant mucking with a modified air cooled powerplant is a big part of what this is all about. 

 

Anybody can make 150 or 200 hp with a new engine like a subaru; it's doing it successfully with the beetle engine that's the kick...

Yeah. Unless you like working on things (I do), I don't think a Type 1 VW is for you.

 

... about that daily driver thing... where do you live?

To echo ALB this not only old technology, the fundamental parts of the engine go back to the 70's for a 1600dp case. Part of the reliability myth of the beetles was ease of maintenance and repair. I was truly a DIY car. Beetles were never engineered to 6500 RPMs and the associated oil pressures. They leaked in the past and now even more. Of course VW are the only German cars that leak because they were first into production post war and the Allies brought over British engineers to get the factory back on line. The stank of the Lord of Darkness was cast on VW. 

BTW as far as heat is concerned I added flaps and a thermostat, enlarged the windows to seal better, added a thermostatically controlled oil cooler, and did the frame bypass heat mode. Unless it is below freezing I have to turn my heat DOWN. It gets cold here at Lake Tahoe at night in summer and even at 45 degrees I get enough heat to leave the top down. 

Profile says Sin City - so either Chicago, Wash DC or Vegas

Vegas, I looked on ebay and you can pick up a suby 2.5L for $800, with 45-55K miles...

Yep,  that'll do it......

Or if you buy Dave a beer or two he'll add engine-trans adapter, flywheel, custom wiring harness, radiator(s), plumbing, modified oil pan, exhaust, ya-da-ya-da.

Mr. Stroud may oversimplify a bit due to his facility with a wrench.

 

I bought my Suby engine as a whole car. $1200 (including the tow home) with 83,000 miles. 

 

I wanted the whole car because I wanted all the electronic nonsense. 

 

Costs after that are not insubstantial. New timing belt and cogs, $250; new head gaskets and bolts, $200; machine work, $300; various adaptors for the air intake, $100; adaptor, flywheel and starter for the transmission, $600; transmission rebuild & beef-up, $1,100; Bully clutch disc, $150; shorty oil pan, $300; getting the wire harness modified to work with the car, $600; radiator, $80; radiator pipes and exhaust fabrication, $500; heater, $130; new oil pressure/temp gauge, $120; alternator, $80 (but it's no good); water pump, $90. And I am omitting small stuff and probably forgetting something material.

 

So roughly $5,800 in my personal case, and counting, and that doesn't actually count my labor, which is probably appropriate because my labor has not yet proven its value in this project.

 

I do remain hopeful, however.

Dave's beer glass is always half full.

 

I made that comment with tongue firmly planted in cheek . I guess I somewhat proved that a backyard approach can be done more or less on the cheap and it works.

 

Ed's approach is a step up to a new level with FI and it's documentation will be a nice tool for other's to consider.

 

Scally - long story short, the more you come away from a stock VW Type I engine (in the case of these fake Speedsters), the more you have to work (pay $$) on them to maintain it's reliability.

 

I had a '95 Vintage Speedster that was VERY reliable & my daily driver (OC SoCal). My wife & I logged nearly 100,000 trouble-free miles traveling all over the West Coast (CA, NV, WA, OR, UT, CO) with nothing more than regular maintenance (oil change 5K miles, tune-up only when it needed).

 

 

I think your location (NV) would only require an external oil-cooler with fan. Good to go!

 

No need to over-think! Find the nicest Speedster you can afford and drive it. I recommend buying one from one of our SOCers, Troy Sloan. Troy sorts out all the gremlins and sells at a more than fair price! 

Scally--There are a L-O-T of Speedster replicas out there.  I think Vintage alone has built 3,000 plus maybe another 250-500 (?) from the other builders.  When one of us has a problem we will often post something here to seek advice on fixing that problem.  The "Problem posts" then are an extremely tiny percentage of the Speedster universe which means that the vast majority are purring along out there with no troubles at all.  

 

Many Speedsters are as reliable as an anvil and have made coast to coast trips plus maybe 10 trips or more to the annual Carslile event without a single hiccup.

 

What small issues I have had were pretty minor and well worth owning such a car and attending events with some of the best folks I have ever met. 

 

Get a sorted car from Drclock or Troy and you should be eset for many fun miles with no issues.   Get on board!!

Part of the reason I liked the Subaru conversion is the AC/heat, and horsepower

 

It doesnt get that cold here in the winter, however it is blazin in the summer.

 

Im not trying to buy one today or tomorrow, it will be months if I do at all. I try to figure out the barriers to what I want to do, and then determine if Im up to seeing it through.  I really appreciate all the input.

 

There are 2 local cars that I should lay my eyes on (one seems really over priced, one is slightly overpriced as far as I can tell). Then I'll see how interested I am in moving forward.

 

slightly overpriced to right on:  http://lasvegas.craigslist.org/cto/4674649711.html

 

way overpriced:http://www.hotrodcitylasvegas.com/?post_type=hrc_cars&p=3597

Converting to Subie power only makes sense if you can do all or most of the work yourself.

If you can't it will be an expensive.

I'm not so sure, Ron.  Does that mean that no one should convert to a 2+ liter a/c motor unless he can do the work/build the engine himself?  A stock 1600 VW engine will work just fine in our cars, but some of us feel the need for speed and/or mod con's.  An engine swap that makes sense for one guy may not make sense for someone else, but for the guy paying the freight, it's the right move if the improvements mean a lot to him.

Jim, can we some more pics of your awesome car?

 

Thanks for the kind words, Bill.  Sorry, but I'm presently a long way from the car, and have no pics of it.  I'll be back in California this spring, and, if this old dog can keep learning new IT tricks, I'll take some digital pics, and figure out how to post them.  I'll admit the new technology kind of scares me.  It took me years to finally bite the bullet and figure out how to post an avatar.  I'm so out of touch I didn't even know what an avatar was.

 

BTW, I had my VS wide body on Kauai for a couple of years around 1998-2000, when I lived in the Homesteads.  Kauai weather makes you quick at "top up, top down".  

Well Jim...you're not the only one...i.e., It's sort of comforting to know that I"M not the only one!!!

 

I'm going to pin a reminder to the note board that my New Year's resolution is to learn how to post an 'avatar'

Scally .... here are my 2 cents ..... Before settling on my car... I did quite a bit of research ... talked to a lot of speedster owners and even got to test one or two cars.  I also spent a lot of time lurking on this forum and soon realized that I have nowhere near the skills nor patience these guys have to keep an air-cooled engine running the way it should.  Plus, the fact that quality parts and decent VW repair shops are becoming scarce didn't help.   Personally, I love to drive much much more than putz around under the lid anyways. I ended up ordering a new Beck build with a 2.5L Subaru engine built by Jake Raby which Carey Hines delivered to me at Carlisle in May 2013.   Yes ... the car cost almost twice what I had originally planned to spend on used one.  Yes ... the car originally had some sorting issues mostly due to poor quality Hydraulic clutch parts.  Yes ... initially the car did have some cooling problems in 95 deg/95% Florida humidity.  But today this car is flawless.  I drive it almost every day (except when it rains).   When I get in for a drive, I have the same confidence in the performance of my Beck as I have in my daily driver.  No worries of getting stuck someplace in the Everglades, the Florida Keys or  ... in front of a restaurant with a half dozen spectators having admired the car....  with no way home.  To me that's important as again, I'm not very good with a wrench.  When I get home from work I'm always looking at the weather hoping for a good evening ride.  On weekends, my speedster is out of the garage a lot more than my daily driver.

 

Now that it has been sorted, I think that Tom's car is an example of the way to build a Speedster nowadays - assuming you can afford it.

I agree with Lane.  I would have never paid that much initially, but if I built again, I would strongly consider a Sony engine.