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Greg,
Which system are you using? I am looking at going with the Megasquirt as I have NO tuning freedom with my stock Bosch Motronic in the 1.8t IM Roadster. Not slamming IM, they built what I wanted. I am just a but more educated now.
Tomm
Which system are you using? I am looking at going with the Megasquirt as I have NO tuning freedom with my stock Bosch Motronic in the 1.8t IM Roadster. Not slamming IM, they built what I wanted. I am just a but more educated now.
Tomm
Greg,
Some of us do run EFI and electronic ignition on our VW motors :).
I swapped from carbs a couple of summers ago using a DTAfast S40 ECU & Jenvey throttle bodies, and ditched the dizzy for a 36-1 toothed wheel that triggers the ECU.
I get better starting, better economy, and better drivability.
Still had to balance the linkage between the throttle bodies, mind.
Simon
Some of us do run EFI and electronic ignition on our VW motors :).
I swapped from carbs a couple of summers ago using a DTAfast S40 ECU & Jenvey throttle bodies, and ditched the dizzy for a 36-1 toothed wheel that triggers the ECU.
I get better starting, better economy, and better drivability.
Still had to balance the linkage between the throttle bodies, mind.
Simon
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Greg,
Please let us know who you went with for an ECU and which motor your running it on. I'm in the process of getting the EJ22 with the Subaru ECU so I'm interesting in learning how you went with. For an aftermarket ECU I was looking at the folks from 034 not cheap but lots of tuning options.
Please let us know who you went with for an ECU and which motor your running it on. I'm in the process of getting the EJ22 with the Subaru ECU so I'm interesting in learning how you went with. For an aftermarket ECU I was looking at the folks from 034 not cheap but lots of tuning options.
Unless I
On our Suby powered cars we are using an EMS Stinger 4424 from Outfront. So far I have no complaints about it. Although this unit is one GPO short of what we need, so we have to run a thermostatic switch in the radiator, which frees a GPO for the IAC valve, otherwise cold start and idle really suffer. No biggie there.
On our watercooled VW engines (1.8 8v, 2.0 8v, 1.8 16v, 1.8t 20v) we are using either stock VW Magnetti Marelli ECM or 034EFI IIc. The Marelli can be hacked with Lemmiwinks, but still doesn't have the overall control of the 034EFI (034 Motorsports). For the flex fuel VW engines, we have to stay with the stock VW ECM. I can't say I understand exactly the logarithm that it uses, but it constantly monitors several variables and knows if you are running gas, E85, straight alcohol, or any other mixture. I've had NO luck with standalone on it.
For aircooled engines I have used a handful of CB Quick Tune EFI systems and I love 'em! Literally one issue to date and that turned out to be a failed CHT sensor that defaulted to an obscure value and really messed with the fuel curve.
Jake uses an SDS system and I have a TIV here with it now. I am just beginning to play with it, but so far so good. It is also the unit we ran on the Blow It Up spyder, and it worked great (until we had no voltage...)
Tomm- What version is your Motronic? Have you looking into various Motronic tuners or tuning software (EPROM emulators and programmers too)? It's out there... definitely not as "user friendly" as some of the standalone management systems, but possible.
On our watercooled VW engines (1.8 8v, 2.0 8v, 1.8 16v, 1.8t 20v) we are using either stock VW Magnetti Marelli ECM or 034EFI IIc. The Marelli can be hacked with Lemmiwinks, but still doesn't have the overall control of the 034EFI (034 Motorsports). For the flex fuel VW engines, we have to stay with the stock VW ECM. I can't say I understand exactly the logarithm that it uses, but it constantly monitors several variables and knows if you are running gas, E85, straight alcohol, or any other mixture. I've had NO luck with standalone on it.
For aircooled engines I have used a handful of CB Quick Tune EFI systems and I love 'em! Literally one issue to date and that turned out to be a failed CHT sensor that defaulted to an obscure value and really messed with the fuel curve.
Jake uses an SDS system and I have a TIV here with it now. I am just beginning to play with it, but so far so good. It is also the unit we ran on the Blow It Up spyder, and it worked great (until we had no voltage...)
Tomm- What version is your Motronic? Have you looking into various Motronic tuners or tuning software (EPROM emulators and programmers too)? It's out there... definitely not as "user friendly" as some of the standalone management systems, but possible.
The biggest reason is that VW guys, I hate to say it are cheap! The newest CB set up will run around 3000.00. Then you have to decide what to do with the ignition. Then that is more money.
as you mentioned above--when people talk about vw's just a handful of suppliers pop into the picture. Kind of like coke or pepsi, republican or democrat-it seems we have very few choices and have almost given up exploring our different options.
There are fewer and fewer mechanics out there who can make/rebuild/repair a system and more and more parts changers. CB's orignal system was based on a chevy geo metro ctrl unit/parts.--Amazingly simple, cheap and effective. With not much effort it can be replicated on the cheap (like me).
There are fewer and fewer mechanics out there who can make/rebuild/repair a system and more and more parts changers. CB's orignal system was based on a chevy geo metro ctrl unit/parts.--Amazingly simple, cheap and effective. With not much effort it can be replicated on the cheap (like me).
Carey,
Its the Motronic 3.8.3 and yes, I researched becoming my own chip tuner and it has both a steep price of entry and a steeper learning curve. At 300 to $500 a pop for "chip" upgrades from the big guys, I would rather go with 034, Megasquirt, etc.
Tomm
Its the Motronic 3.8.3 and yes, I researched becoming my own chip tuner and it has both a steep price of entry and a steeper learning curve. At 300 to $500 a pop for "chip" upgrades from the big guys, I would rather go with 034, Megasquirt, etc.
Tomm
Their has to be a way to hybridize . Efi and CIS into a simple mechanicly controled system . Like Duezinburg and Packard did in the 30s. I just don't believe in electronics. TO much like a magic Box to me.. If you have followed the Hot Vw Mileage motor project as I have they still have NOT got as good mileage as they were with twin carbs.
And I beat their carb set up with a O2 sniffer and some carb tuning and Dizzy mods, and didn't use the Jet-O-Vapors
My dizzy starts at 10 degrees after TDC at Idle and goes 10 degrees BTC at 1.000,, 20 degrees BTC at 2,000 and stops at 31 degrees BTC at 3.000 and up. smooth and strong and Hand crafted.. in a protronix case.
And I beat their carb set up with a O2 sniffer and some carb tuning and Dizzy mods, and didn't use the Jet-O-Vapors
My dizzy starts at 10 degrees after TDC at Idle and goes 10 degrees BTC at 1.000,, 20 degrees BTC at 2,000 and stops at 31 degrees BTC at 3.000 and up. smooth and strong and Hand crafted.. in a protronix case.
Greg, that is a really nice looking installation of the suby motor in your speedie. How much greater is the weight than the ACVW motor would have been?
I started with 48IDAs, then to 44IDFs, and finally to a MegaSquirt install. As I had no knowledge of how FI worked, the learning curve was steep and made my head hurt at times. The map for my 2180cc motor is essentially "dialed in" at this time. What that means is that the car now starts like a modern FI car. No more smell of unburt gas, no more stall off of the line, better MPG, etc. I use EDIS ignition, so no distributor. For all AFR and ignition changes, I now use my laptop computer. As you stated, road testing is a good time.
Now, I am about to build a simpler intake manifold. The individual runner system is too prone to vacuum leaks. The new system will have one runner to each side dumping into a cast aluminum dual intake where the injectors will be mounted.
I own an outlaw speedie, and this upgrade is perfect. There is still the possibility of a water cooled upgrade lurking in the back of my mind, so I enjoy seeing installations like yours. There are those who enjoy building and driving perfect replica speedsters, and I admire them. Then, there are the wild guys like us who feel the desire to preserve only what is beautiful and otherwise push these cars into the future as much as our time, energy, money, and talent will allow.
Chuck
I started with 48IDAs, then to 44IDFs, and finally to a MegaSquirt install. As I had no knowledge of how FI worked, the learning curve was steep and made my head hurt at times. The map for my 2180cc motor is essentially "dialed in" at this time. What that means is that the car now starts like a modern FI car. No more smell of unburt gas, no more stall off of the line, better MPG, etc. I use EDIS ignition, so no distributor. For all AFR and ignition changes, I now use my laptop computer. As you stated, road testing is a good time.
Now, I am about to build a simpler intake manifold. The individual runner system is too prone to vacuum leaks. The new system will have one runner to each side dumping into a cast aluminum dual intake where the injectors will be mounted.
I own an outlaw speedie, and this upgrade is perfect. There is still the possibility of a water cooled upgrade lurking in the back of my mind, so I enjoy seeing installations like yours. There are those who enjoy building and driving perfect replica speedsters, and I admire them. Then, there are the wild guys like us who feel the desire to preserve only what is beautiful and otherwise push these cars into the future as much as our time, energy, money, and talent will allow.
Chuck
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Greg
Curious why you didnt just use stock Subie mgmt. Must be junkyards full of parts.
You increased the boost. Would require re-chip/RAM update to use stock ?
came with auto transmission?
Curious why you didnt just use stock Subie mgmt. Must be junkyards full of parts.
You increased the boost. Would require re-chip/RAM update to use stock ?
came with auto transmission?
From my notes (and I don't recall where they came from) a fully dressed, dry, TI weighs approximately 245lbs and a fully dressed, dry, Suby EJ22 weighs about 275lbs.
IIRC the TI figures were with stock flywheel, full tins, and exhaust/Dansk heater boxes. I know we can shave close to 30 lbs off of a spyder engine via lightened flywheel, no heater boxes, no tins, etc...
Tomm,
If you decide to look into the 034 stuff further I'd suggest speaking with Javad. He seemed to be one of the more knowledgeable people I've spoken to regarding their management systems. Another nice thing about 034 is that most of they guys there are running either VWs or Audis and they often post their own base maps for customers to play with.
IIRC the TI figures were with stock flywheel, full tins, and exhaust/Dansk heater boxes. I know we can shave close to 30 lbs off of a spyder engine via lightened flywheel, no heater boxes, no tins, etc...
Tomm,
If you decide to look into the 034 stuff further I'd suggest speaking with Javad. He seemed to be one of the more knowledgeable people I've spoken to regarding their management systems. Another nice thing about 034 is that most of they guys there are running either VWs or Audis and they often post their own base maps for customers to play with.
I went halfway, and did ignition only. Megajolt controls a Ford EDIS unit. My carbs are fine, and easily tuneable. More accurate, powerful, and tuneable than any distributor ever could be. And cheap, I have $160 into it!
http://www.autosportlabs.org/viewtopic.php?t=1753
http://www.autosportlabs.org/viewtopic.php?t=1753
...and Danny's car flies! ~Alan
...ask me how I know...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9kKYVVyMie4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9kKYVVyMie4
Thanks guys!
Jake wanted me to send my heads back for dual-plugging, but I said no thanks. It is good enough, I think. I'll save the dual plugs for my '72 911 project.
Jake wanted me to send my heads back for dual-plugging, but I said no thanks. It is good enough, I think. I'll save the dual plugs for my '72 911 project.