Why so Many Re-Builds ?

I'm new to this site and to an interest in Speedsters.

I notice there are an incredible number of references to "just re-built the engine," etc. Some of these cars only have 10K or so miles.

Are engine problems inherent in the breed --- which seems odd considering the VW was famed for longevity?

Or do the engines overheat in the context of the Speedster body and performance? Are oil coolers a recommendation?

Thanks


Sam Brown

The problem is that most of these engines are considerably more built up then the original VW engine. Over the years the engine manufaturers have figured out what is required to really make these engines last.

Depending on what size of engine your going for they do require a larger free flowing exhaust many times and little other things help also. Some people estimate the cooling ability on the speedster to also be a about 20% less then the original VW.

My suggestion, stick with the name brand engine builders...ask here first!!! And yes depending on how big you go you may need to do some of the cooling modifications.

Sometimes the engines just sat around too much and this means the heads need to be rebuilt in order to make the engine run properly. Years of sitting take there toll on an engine just about as much or more in some cases then driving them.

Another item for the rebuild equation is that because the builders put in more HP, the owner runs them hard and harder! In my case it was an over zealous mechanic rerouting the remote oil filter line so it rested on the header. On the long run down to Knotts last year from Oregon, the lines burned thru on the infamous Grapevine and I ended up back at JPS on the back of a flat bed!

Reason - urh, urh More Power! Plus the mine is bigger than your rivalry. Actually even every VW bug ad you see says engine recently rebuilt. I think thats used to cover everything from a valve job, a new clutch pressure plate install to replacing a leaky push rod tube.

I think the motors will last forever. Remember that Woody Allen flick where he's a robot and finds a bug in a cave in the future and vrooom starts it up. But we are all tinkerer's and want to have more oomph, vrrooom and screech. It comes with the territory. But don't misunderstand, most if not all Speedster motors run well and rarely do they blow up.

Hey and if they do..... :) you get to add some more parts...

It is true, that if you go through all the trouble of taking the engine out and rebuilding the heads you just as well rebuild the whole thing!!!!!!!1

I think Wolfgang said it best, "More Power!"
It seems like there is a learning curve or right of passage...you start out stock and then you think, hmmmm? Next thing you know you're entertaining engine modifications!

Flip side to that is this is a hobby that allows a person to take an old car, cut it up and make a new car out of it. That being said, I'll bet many folks use the old engine too, run it a while and then when they've totally amazed themselves that the car actually came out pretty damn cool, they treat themselves to a few items they may have scrimped on during the intial build, which often includes a heftier engine.

because aircooled vw engines are fragile, depend a lot in regular maintenance and un-reliable (let's all be honest, he he he)

Its because not enough of them are running Type 4 Power Plants- YET!

sorry, I couldn't resist!!!

it's fun (the first couple of times)

Another problem with the engines may be operator error. The PO of mine chose to ignore the oil press. light whilst driving. The engine retaliated by scattering itself.

Builders may be another problem. He had another built by someone in NE Ohio. After I bought it, it popped a valve seat loose resulting in a smiley faced piston. A complete tear down revealed a lot of other builder related issues.

It now has a Pat Downs 2110 in it. Color me happy! This mill is first class all the way.

Sam Brown, and other "posters" on this thread:

I think history also provides some answers. Jump on me if anything I say here doesn't conform to the facts.

Volkswagen discontinued building cars for import to the United States because U.S. safety laws required more and more safety do-dads be added to a car. This added weight to the basic VW Bug. Volkswagen engineers apparently thought the optimal relationship between size, weight and dependability was at something around 1600 cc's and less than 2000 lbs. Also, air-cooled engines get pretty noisy above 2000cc's. When the power-to-weight ratio got out-of-whack VW began exporting cars to the U.S. with water-cooled engines. These are the same reasons Porsche eventually abandoned air-cooled production. Water-cooled engines are much quieter because the water "jackets" absorb noise and some vibration. (Ask the helicopter mechanic, or go for a flight in a small airplane). So water-cooled engines appealed to consumers raised on Detroit design with less concern about weight. Remember the cost of fuel in Europe motivated a lot of the early design considerations for VW and Porsche. Corvettes and Cobras operated on .50 a gallon gas at that time in europe gas was about 500% of that cost, per gallon.

But most of us like a bit more pep than 90 hp, so the rebuilt higher hp engine is the natural alternative. But increased engine capacity requires some reduction in the stock case, and boring and stroking increases the pressure on the crank, push rods, heads, etc. And the increased heat produced by the large volume of fuel and better mix from fancy carburetors adds a lot of heat, which speeds-up the fatiguing of the engine parts (and actually can cause the magnesium aluminum alloy case to

I always thought that the biggest reason for going to water-jacket cooling was to keep the head temps down (and controlled) to increase air/fuel burn efficiency and, thereby, reduce emmissions.

The much stricter US smog laws came along in 1975, and the air-cooled engines went away about that time, too (when VW introduced their watercooled in-line engines that could meet the 1975 and later smog laws).

I was always taught, by an air-cooled engine builder that I very much trusted, that if you used quality parts, assembled by a competent builder and driven in a responsible manner, these engines would last well over 100,000 miles.

If, however, you make them produce over 4 times the horsepower they were designed for AND do frequent burn-outs with them, you should expect to do rebuilds every other year or so.

gn

I think what he meant is that the water-cooled design has a lot of side benefits that we have come accustomed to and expect. I think we also drive are cars being used to having the water-cooled engine and the air-cooled engine, like you said just won't tolerate as much abuse.

Is just a different animal, I have driven, seen and had many watercooled vw's in my life with 200,000 or 300,000 miles and running strong, aircooled engines are nice and "cool in it's own way" but they can not be compared with other engines that are far superior in design and reliability

If all the comments are relevent -- and they seem logical to me -- how do you account for the reliability of, say, my 75 911 with its 2,700 cc engine and going strong at 95,000 miles?

Sam

Sam:

It was DESIGNED to last well beyond 100,000 miles. Those German designers know what they're doing - and you can bet on that!

Hell! I know of a 1976 911 in New England that went damn close to 250,000 miles before a major rebuild (never driven in salty-Winter) and, last I knew it had over 100,000 miles on AFTER the rebuild.

I said it before and I'll say it again; use quality parts, assembled by a competent builder and don't beat on it and it'll last a long, long time (no matter what "it" is, except, of course, for a Trabant!!!!)

gn

Good point regarding how many times a case may have been "cored" almost nothing beats "new !"

Lack of basic maintenance i,e. * regular oil changes and valve adjustments at regular 3,000 mile intervals aand over heating was and still is, the # 1 cause of aircooled engine failure....For those that choose not to crawl under a type 1 for regular valve adjustments, Mofoco makes a 1776 hyd. valve motor that was featured in a "Street Wise" motor build and it remains popular today, the pitfall to the hyd. motor.... should there be a remote chance of a lifter failure, the case has to be split to gain access.

* Like the old Sunoco commercial " Pay me now or pay me later" ..say's it all.

1975 The aircooled engine altered to to fuel injection was a last ditch effort to burn cleaner and lower emissions

1979 VW bowed out of the aircooled Beetle due to increased US emission requirments

might i add the vw engine engine is amazing.
not the most powerful, far from the most fuel efficient. but few other engines (if any)
offer such a complete package in this size
1. you don't need 10 ft of exhaust pipe
2. self contained heating system
3. self contained cooling system
4. no additional weight needed for radiators, heater cores (ok that might be nice),
what other engine can you pull that quickly, 4 bolts, pop off some ducts, couple of hoses,
wires---pull.
i was amazed the first time i saw it.
i used to work in a vw engine rebuilding shop. without a doubt the top reason
for internal engine work was owner neglect. valve adjustments? yeah right. you would not believe the thickness of the sludge in the oil pick-up screens. oil changes?

To answer the original question, most builders' use rebuilt in mexico beat to crap engines to keep the cost down. Buy a used one and drop a "new" one in.

Bruce,

I've seen sludge so thick, a good way up the valve springs and the thing STILL ran, well..... kinda sorta :~)

Pulling an engine out of a Beetle is a walk in the park, what's your best "time?"
Mine personal best is 11 minutes flat in a driveway with hand tools pre laid out in order of use.
Use a floor jack ... what's that?
An old tire to cushion the "engine" drop always works ....with a concrete block and couple of 2x4's to lift it back in works in a pinch!

Early 1970 "something" we did a clutch R & I pulling a Beetle motor on the shoulder of RT 3 East in Clifton NJ !...Imagine doing that these days, with all the traffic into NYC!

Alan; that's exactly what makes the VW aircooled cars so "user friendly". It's a shame you can't just walk into a dealership and buy one new; if I could I'd be using one as my daily driver!

I had a bone-stock, 36 hp VW dune buggy in the late '60's which somehow oval'd the dowel-pin holes on the flywheel and kept loosening the gland nut. Tried everything (teen agers never have the money to fix it right), but it would keep loosening, so I got good at pulling the engine to tighten it. Remember, though, the engine was hanging out there in free-space with nothing in the way.

Best removal time was: scream into the garage (where the floor jack was always waiting), loosen everything up, pull the engine, re-torque the gland nut, re-place the engine and re-tighten everything, let it down off the jack stands and scream back onto the street - time; 30 minutes flat.

I remember doing that once and then heading to a local garage a few miles away. I got there and parked off to the side, leaving it running. One of the guys working there came in and said" Hey! Your cars leaking water!" "It can't be!" I replied, "It's air-cooled!"

We walk out there (very briskly, I might add) to find the fuel connection to the carb just sitting there, spewing raw fuel all over the running engine. I had pushed it into the hole on the carb, but never started to tighten it!!!! I dove for the ignition and turned it off. Luckily, no fire started.

Oh, did I mention that the entire buggy body was made of WOOD??

Life's little ways of reminding you to be more careful.

Eventually, I got tired of re-tightening the gland nut and simply welded across a couple of the nut flats to the flywheel - problem solved.

gn

Nut'in like a fire wrench fix...

Gord; that's an amazing story! Man I sure love reading about all your experiences!! The '50's & '60's were cool, weren't they???

Ricardo,

Yes, the 40's,50's and 60's were neat to grow up in but actually every age group has their own memories, like everyone growing up in the 40's thru the 60's it was bittersweet. The 60's were really ugly in a lot of ways, the assasintions and riots, the war, social unrest and others but the 50's were pretty cool to me, high school, college, first car, first love, and Elvis Presley and James Dean among other stars! Oh and I can't fail to mention, no Rap music!

Bruce

i bet a fellow mechanic (about 2 miles north of alan on rt 3east in 1979) that he couldn't pull a vw engine in 15 min's. i lost and he had time to light a cigarette.

That flywheel loosening happened to me when I was like 17 with a 73 super beetle, and I also welded the flywheel but after a few hundred miles it sheard the crankshaft in two, that was the end of that car.

Bruce; I hear ya!! I don't know why I can't really stand today's music (gangsta rap and the lame thing they are calling "Rock" nowadays); it's a sure sign of me getting old.