Why the heck won't you start?

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Probably not related, but this sticks in my head.

Many, many years ago, vacationing on your island, we had to call the rental car company the second morning there to come start our almost new Nissan Sentra.

They knew what it was as soon as we called and said it happens there 'all the time'.

Turned out to be condensation inside the distributor cap (I told you it was many, many years ago).

I'd grown up in east coast winters and in humid summers, but something about the combination of climate factors there seems to somehow make condensation in auto electrics more an issue than in most places.

I just chalked it up to part of the daily hell of living on Maui.

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my no starts were always a loose wire on the coil vibrating loose

I've never been a fan of those cutoff switches. I find it easier to just take off the battery cable when working on stuff.

And if the cutoff switch is there for theft deterrence, I'd let them steal the car and collect the insurance.

I wanted a switch since I mounted the battery in the nose of the car and couldn't easily reach the cable connector. It helped a lot while I was building, testing and troubleshooting. It may now simply be the trouble.

Mitch, you're right, life out here is hell. But as Buckaroo Bonzai said "Everywhere you go, there you are."

Penny Pretty...

@Sacto Mitch, gently wiping my sad tears from my eyes as I ponder my starting problems 🙂

Sometimes this issue is heat-related.  It might help to add a hard start relay.  This also would keep high current from going through your ignition switch.

Oh god how will you endure it?

@edsnova posted:

Oh god how will you endure it?

More beer.

@Michael McKelvey posted:

Sometimes this issue is heat-related.  It might help to add a hard start relay.  This also would keep high current from going through your ignition switch.

Good point, Michael. I just checked my wiring diagram and I didn't put a relay there.

@edsnova posted:

Oh god how will you endure it?

Marianne is very happy with her vacation spot. We've got 3 huge green sea turtles working the reef in front of the condo and a 6 ft long black tip shark keeping the bait fish entertained 20 ft away from the shore. This is going to earn me some big brownie points. Somehow I will survive...

Aloha Michael from Napili. Hope you got the bug figured out in the speedster. I called Maui Roadsters to see if a car was available, no luck yet I'm on a wait list. A few weeks left though. Glad you and Marianne could get away for Mothers Day.

Bigwavedave

Aloha, Dave. Thanks, so far so good. I'm glad to hear that Jerome is doing good business, but sorry he's booked up. Best wishes to your wife for Mother's day, too!

Thanks, much Aloha

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@Michael Pickett posted:

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...We've got 3 huge green sea turtles working the reef in front of the condo...

Dammit, Michael, now that's what I'm talkin' about.

Who cares if the car breaks down someplace, anyway?

Wherever it happens - at the hardware store, laundromat, or gas station - just leave it for a few hours, put on some flip-flops (okay, okay - slippers, then) and it's 50 yards to the nearest beach.

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Could it possible be the ground?  Are the bolts that you are grounded at loose.  Bad grounds can cause some strange things

@Bobby D posted:

Could it possible be the ground?  Are the bolts that you are grounded at loose.

Good point. I checked them and they're tight up front and on the engine strap. Thanks!

Solution found on the starting problem. I've got a 90 amp alternator because of the external oil cooler fan and the fans on the air conditioning condenser and evaporator. I logged voltages on my trips around the island and found that when the engine was hot and I had the AC on, the battery voltage dropped well under 12 volts at 2200 RPM. So, long trips and the car wouldn't start the next time. 

I measured the DC amps on the alternator at full draw and it only hit 52 amps output. Checking the output for alternating current showed over 8 VAC. My thoughts were that a diode or two had failed.

I ordered a 90 amp Compufire alternator as a replacement. It was heavier and had extra vent fans compared to the EMPI one I bought a couple of years ago. They claim to use USA parts for the Compufires. Stuck it in and instantly charged over 13V at idle.

I'll take apart the EMPI and rebuild the diode pack and call it a spare. It was clearly 2nd class quality.

So, I'll reconnect the battery cutoff switch and see if it introduces any problems, but otherwise, I think the partial failure of the alternator was the culprit.

@Michael Pickett posted:

I'll take apart the EMPI and rebuild the diode pack and call it a spare. It was clearly 2nd class quality.

This seems to be a reoccurring theme anytime an EMPI part is mentioned around here.
-=theron

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There are eight million stories in Empi city.

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@Michael Pickett

I had an auto electric shop bench test my alternator. It seems the 55 amp Bosch will do that for a few minutes, but 30-35 amps constant load is all it can handle. I'm guessing the 90 amp can probably handle 50-60 amps continuously. Just something for people to keep in the back of their minds that output is rated at peak.

Great catch on the bad diodes! Good on you!

EMPI( every manufactured part inferior)

@barncobob posted:

EMPI( every manufactured part inferior)

No, no, no. EMPI: Every Mistake Passes Inspection

... but seriously, it's nearly impossible to build a car without EMPI parts, and a lot of them are really pretty good. A lot of them are really pretty bad as well. The difficulty is in knowing which is which.

FWIW, the same can be said of some of CB's catalog, as well as AA Performance.

Mitch's post sent me to a Gun & Roses lyric - somewhat modified, of course.

"Take me down to the EMPI-crap city where the prices are low and parts are $hitty."

"Oh won't you please take me hoooooome".

Wow you guys are a tough crowd, they DO make good Zip Ties :~)

EMPI............Empi-Means-Performance-Inferiority......................Bruce

they buy the zips and repackage them..:}

Being that EMPI has purchased JayCee(among others) the quality isn't always crap. I just got the JayCee sump plate and No-leak pushrod tubes from Empi.

Hush Danny!!  Don't let facts get in the way of a good story!

Don't you have a brass thingy to lose somewhere?

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A few weeks ago, I learned the working lifespan of an EMPI interior door handle.

It turns out to be eight years.

Shorter than I would have hoped, but longer than I should have expected.

In 56 years of driving, this was the first door handle ever to break in two in my hand. And I’ve used quite a few door handles in that time - sometimes in haste, sometimes in exasperation, and occasionally in anger. Before this, though, every other door handle has been up to the task every single time.

But not the EMPI.

It’s not like I wasn’t cutting the EMPI door handle some slack. I knew it was a cheap copy of a handle that had been designed by an engineer to withstand certain expected stresses. The EMPI was designed just to look like the original and manufactured at the lowest possible cost.

So, knowing that, I haven’t been using it like a real door handle. I’ve made allowances. I work it gently. Never in anger. I make sure I never use it to pull the door shut. I’ve treated it like a museum piece that should be preserved for future generations.

It still broke.

So, I manned up. I did what I should have done eight years ago. I went to the Stoddard catalog and laid out 70 bucks for a pair of handles that look almost exactly like the EMPI handles, but that cost three times as much.

Why didn’t I do that eight years ago?

Well, this probably won’t make any sense to you, but I was thinking short term. Why waste 75 bucks when I can get almost the same thing for 25? How much difference could there be? Now understand this is just me. I’m pretty sure most of EMPI’s customers would gladly pay three times as much for a properly engineered handle if EMPI stocked their warehouse with them, right?

It must be the nutball, cheapo fringe types like me that EMPI caters to.

There are only a few of us out here, so I don’t understand how EMPI makes any money at all serving this market.

And I’m sorry if I’ve ruined it for the rest of you and you can’t find a decently made door handle at EMPI any more.

It’s mainly my fault.

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@Sacto Mitch, same for me, except I ruined it for everyone who needs a 90 amp alternator. We were clearly using the products in a manner not intended by the manufacturer.

The sad part is that the $75 handles probably came from the same mud-hut/factory as the $25 ones. You don't always get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get.

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I don't know, Michael, that's a pretty nice-looking alternator. You want it to do - what - electric stuff, too?

Stan, you're probably right about the single hut of origin. I'm guessing that's how, uh, 'QC' works there. If it passes, it goes to vendor A, if it fails, to vendor B.

That way, no handles are wasted.

You could always try JB-Welding the thing with some sort of support behind it

but your story reminds me of having a 1983 GTI living where GM has a cold weather testing center and coming out in the AM, at minus 42 and I try to turn the crank handle on the window.  The handle button peels off as if I am peeling an orange around the metal shaft.  Could not believe it neither did the dealer.

This sort of thing didn't originate with EMPI.  Both my brother and I had Ford Pintos for a while in college and the cheap pot metal window winders, door handles, and sun visor brackets in both of them broke regularly.  I think we replaced all of them in both cars at least once.  I sold mine after 18 months while he held onto his for years.  I think all of those parts were broken in his when he sold it.  The amount of cost cutting Ford did with those cars was criminal.

@Lane Anderson, Chevy Vega GT survivor here. Sold it after only 4 engines/rebuilds. Pinto with a bowtie.

Your not kidding Michael, my friend had one... engine went too, and I had a Ford Pinto, no fun and I it was sold in a jiffy.