Wide 5 disc brake problem!

Hi all, I am nearing completion of my car now, but have a slight snag! I have fitted a C.B Performance wide 5 disc brake kit to the front of my car, and retained the rear drum brakes. The problem I am having is that I am unable to get a decent feeling brake pedal,ie it nearly hits the floor!! I have used all new parts, so am assuming they are all good. The rear brakes are adjusted up fine and I have bleed the system what feels like about 20 times!!, using a pressure bleeder and doing it by pumping the pedal etc, and now pretty sure there is no air in the system.

I am wondering if the problem lies with the master cylinder, should I use a cylinder with a larger bore to compensate for the wide 5 disc conversion?? or do I have another problem?

are you using a dual circuit MC?

Im using a stock dual circuit cylinder.

You need to remove the two bolts holding the brake caliper to the spindle, then rotate the caliper WITH the rotor upward so that the brake bleeding screw is at the TOP, OR HIGHEST POINT of the brake fluid system. Use some wire to hold it there temporarily and then just bleed the front brake system again and you should be OK. Then just remount the caliper using locktite on the bolts.

Good Luck, Have Fun.

Joel points out a fool-proof way to bleed the front brakes, but before you do that, make sure that you have the calipers on the correct sides - there should be a left and right and, when properly installed the bleeder valve will be at the TOP of the caliper.

You can just as easily install them on the wrong sides with the bleeder at the bottom, but since bubbles rise you'll never get them to bleed out.

Don't ask me how I found this out |>(

Cheers for info, gonna give it a go tomorrow, will let you know how I get on, fingers crossed!!

Gordon is giving you incorrect information if you are working on a CB performance wide 5 front ball joint disc brake system.

And you CAN ask me how I know.

Good Luck, Cheers.

Joel:

Does that mean that you CAN'T flip the calipers side-to-side and still bolt them on upside down on a wide-5 hub?

If that's so, then I guess they're different from the 4-lug hub style, as I had them wrong and couldn't get them to bleed properly until I saw the error and flipped them to the correct side.....Then they bled normally and worked fine (with good pedal height).

Guess ya learn something new every day....

gn

Joel, You seem to know your stuff about the C.B brakes, do you know what the discs and calipers are originaly from, im guessing they are not VW?? I imagine them to be sourced from another manufacturer. Also what is the effect of using the larger bore C.B m/cylinder, or is that only required when you fit discs to the rear?? Darren

Hi Darron
When I went to the CB set-up, I noticed the same thing: less pedal. So,I sought out professional help. My wrench looked it over and said that it was all good, just different. The good news is that it stops just fine.
Good luck!

Darren,

I think the caliplers were originallly a FIAT part, not sure about the discs, but you can get disc replacements from CB without the hub, if I'm not mistaken.

As far as the master cyclinder, I ran the stock 19.05mm ID m/c when I had disc brakes in the front only. When I went to 4 wheel disc brakes, I upgraded the m/c to a 20.64mm ID m/c that I sourced from the German outfit Custom & Speed Parts, pretty pricey, but that was a while back and it was the best option I could find at the time. I think the "new" 4 wheel disc brake master cyclinder that Socal and I guess CB are selling, at a very reasnoable cost, are probably a 20.64mm ID m/c.

I went to rear discs because I found I was wearing out the rear shoes pretty quickly, faster than the fronts and that told me most of the braking was happening in the rear, weird, but that's where all the weight is.

Contrary to what CB says, when I installed their rear wide 5 disc brake set-up on my car (short swing axle diff) the tire track width was widened and I had to change the off-set on my rear wheels, more wheel inside, to compensate, which meant a trip to Stockton Wheel for the work. So the brake upgrade turned out to be a real exercise in research, running around and spending money, but I am happy with the results.

I hope you find some of this info of value.

Good Luck, Cheers

Joel

Darren, I've put the same CB performance wide 5 disc brake conversion on the front end of my 66 based vintage speedster this weekend. I am experiencing the same problems with pedal travel as you described, practically to the floor!, did the bleeding of the brakes by taking the calipers off and suspending them as described by Joel work?. I am running a stock duel circuit master cylinder, and as you, wondered whether anyone knows of an upgrade? I only intend to run discs at the front and stock drums rear. Is the master cylinder advertised by CB performance suitable?, as the lack of pedal feel is un-nerving to say the least, although it does stop well

A suggestion....
Call CB and ask 'em about it !

Ernie, I've taken your advice and e-mailed CB Performance to see whether the large bore master cylinder is likely to overcome the problem. Seems obvious, now, why didn't I think of that, doh!!!

Ernie - That can't be Marilyn. Her headlights aren't bright enough.

I'm guessing that's why Ernie is at low-beam!

good luck getting a return email from CB.....i'd suggest you call

Bob, Thought about phoning, but with the international codes, time difference etc thought e-mail would be easier. Do I get the impression they are not that quick at responding to emails?.

and i quote from the horses mouth:
http://www.cbperformance.com/contact.asp

Matt...
Make a phone call & ask for Daniel!
Many times, CB has told me not to me not to rely on Email, they'ed prefer to talk at ya on the phone.

Matt, Ive not yet managed to try bleeding brakes as Joel said, as been on holiday. Seems to make sense how he says to do it, when you look at the caliper the bleed screw is quite low on the caliper, meaning air could probably get trapped.Im gonna give it a go this week.
Also ive tried to contact C.B about it via E-mail, they responded after about a week, to say that i needed to fit a residual pressure valve in the rear brake line???, not sure about that one!! With regard to fitting a larger master cyl, I think you only need that if you are using discs on the rear, not drums as we both are.

let me no if you have had any joy with your brakes??? Darren

Darren, Good news is, I bled the front and rear brakes last weekend, the front calipers suspended, as described by Joel. The pressure/feeling under the pedal is now just as it should be. Again thanks for everyone for all the help