wide 5 disk conversion

I am considering a wide 5 conversion. While I am at it, I would like to go with disk brakes all around too. Can anyone recommend the best (easiest fit) product for this. Also, what other parts will I need (new master cylinder, etc).

Thanks

George, I have to say I'm glad you asked before you bought.
I did the conversion myself, first going to CB Performance discs all the way around and eventually having to step it back down to drums in the rear.
The CB P discs in the rear were not up to being driven hard. The steel centers separated from the aluminim skins that the lugs grow out of.
Could have been messy. Also, the master cylinder behind my Beetle pedal wasn't sufficient to provide pressure to four discs.
Seriously -- many, many folks gave me good advice about avoiding those rear discs. Trust me, drums are fine for the back.
The drop spindles and front discs are great, but they didn't stand behind the rears at all. I called them to ask, and they said it must have been me.
There have been several cases of this kind of separation on the Spyder site, too.
Pictures:

George, I have to agree with Cory that rear disks are not necessary, but with that said I have a Spyder and a Speedster, both with wide 5 4 wheel disks. I am using kits from SOCAL. They are "0" offset, meaning of course they do not increase the width of the track, front or rear. the only thing{s} wrong with these are their weight (all cast iron) and the dual circut master cylinder they supply may not be the best for 4 wheel disks (I had to install residual pressure valves for both front and rear circuts to maintain good brakes and finally went to a 356 C brake master cyl)

If I were to do it again I would stick with type 3 rear drum brakes and use either CB or SOCAL wide 5 kits on the front

email ernie( esfinwilton )he has been thru the whole process

George,
I just did the conversion last summer. There are many things to consider so do your due diligence before you buy, ask me how I know.

Something that hasn't been mention here yet is wheel offset. I don't know if you have swing or IRS so it's hard to say if you'll have clearance issues. Just keep in mind that the wide five stock VW wheels do not have the same positive offset that the 4 bolts do.

I kept my rear drum set up and I agree, discs in the rear are overkill, my car has plenty of stopping power. If you're doing rear discs for the zero track increase than I understand but if you're looking for improved braking the rear drums are plenty.

I was not aware of the offset differences. Is it front and rear? Please give me more detail. I was only considering rear disks for increased stopping power. Assuming that I forego that notion and stick with disk up front and drums in the rear, what setup provides the least amount of hassle?

Hey George!
As Barnco mentioned, I did my '05 VS (swing arm) last winter. I just changed out the rear drums and added CB's front disc kit after putting some used spindles up front. I had NO clearance problems.

I've been planning to convert my rear brakes to 4-lug disks partly because I suck at adjusting the rear brakes, and I want the car to brake evenly. You guys are making me reconsider. I'm most concerned with the master cylinder-related pressure issues. Can someone please explain what causes them, and how they are usually dealt with.

forgot to also mention, i have a swing arm car.

so i was planning on getting the dropped spindle wide 5 disks up front (i already have dropped spindles on my car now and have accepted the slightly wider track.

would my offset issues be in the front or rear? info please!!

thanks,

Lane - the disc brakes require more brake fluid to move the piston compared top the wheel cylinder of the stock drum brakes. The dual circuit master cylinder (MC) seems to work fine with adding one set of disc brakes, but there is not enough fluid movement in the MC piston to work with 4 wheel. An upgraded MC is required (from what i have read)

George: I do not believe there are any kits on the market that work with dropped spindles without serious mods. I had dropped spindles, and drums and then wanted to upgraded to discs, and had to get a new setup (CB).

I read on thesamaba about a guy adapting EMPI's to work with Dropped spindles, but he took off a serious amount of metal from the caliper bracket.

paul,

thanks for your reply. i'm aware that i would be purchasing the dropped spindles again; i am fine with that.

ah - well i bought the CB kit and it added 12mm to each side.

i do not believe there are any dropped zero offset kits.

George,
You should be OK with offset issues up front, there's plenty of room up there. The front issue will be spindles. Just make sure that the spindles you have will fit the disc kit you buy and you'll be fine.
The rear is a different story. If I'm not mistaken Swing rears have more room, meaning the track is narrower. You'll have to buy the wide 5 drums (CIP1 has them) and they WILL increase the track 10-12mm total (I think). Then you have to contend with the positve offset of the wheels you chose. I went with the traditional 10 slot VW wheel and they had a small amount of positive offset where as the stock 4 bolts I had on had NO positive offset. So just measure the distance from the outer edge of your tire wall to the inner edge of your wheel well. If the increase in track and wheel offset are less than that measurement you'll be fine.
I hope this helps. PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE ask as many questions as you want on this as it can't be confusing, and costly if you have to keep shipping back and forth to get the roght parts, ask me how I know. ;)

yes - I've done this as well, so ask before you buy - save your time and money.

mickey/ paul,

thanks for your help. thank you ernie for your time and help too!!

george

Hi George, Just to confuse you even more, I have fitted a wide 5 disc kit to my car front and rear, I used an EMPI kit for the front and rear, the kit also included a larger bore master cylinder. The kit fits real good and gave me no issues fitting it. The track increase front or rear is next to nothing, so no clearance problems. I originally had a C.B kit fitted to the front which gave the problems others have already mentioned, it also increased to track.
I also fitted drum skins to improve the look. Hopefully this info is helpful, Cheers Darren