Wide 5 Disk conversion- AC industries- Need help-

Good people of SOC. Read this. There are tried and true methods.

 

 

Guys,  a million thanks for your help.  After three attempts at bleeding the system and minor adjustments to the rear drums, I got the brakes/ pedal travel back to where my 4 lug disks used to me.  they work great, and other than my inexperience bleeding the system, the kits and AC Ind were great.

 

Car tracks and stops straight.  but under heavy braking it pulls a smidge to the right.  Will see if this corrects itself after the pads set, or weather indeed I need alignment or brake adjustments.

 

thanking you again for your help.

 

luis

Ditto for me.

I am guilty of using profanity.....and telling the TRUTH...

scott,

 

might your speedsters be outlaws

 

But in this country, you're innocent until proven guilty.

 

 

I have not bragged of my unlicensed buying and selling exploits....

"I suppose it is tempting, if the only tool you have is a hammer, to treat everything as if it were a nail."

 

Abraham Maslow

Flyenby (Scott?)

 

This question of 'unlicensed' has been hashed out before in response to your original intimation that Troy was operating in disregard to California's requirements.

 

NOT SO...as you were told then!

 

Troy limits the numbers of sales within the specified limits of those restrictions.

You know, Scott (and I'm going to constantly use it now that I know it), you really seem to have a hard-on for busting Troy's chops for unlicenced car selling, while I distinctly remember him saying every car he buys goes in his name, so (as I understand it) taxes are being paid and no laws are being broken. Why don't you move on and show us pics of your car, ask a technical question, contribute some knowledge or?? Anything but the pissing contests. Al

 

"And in the end, the love you take is equal to the love you make." 

 

Paul McCartney

might be wrong but where did he bring it up again i must have missed it 

.clever i guess but again i ask where is it that he brought it up again

 

I'd think it was pretty self-evident, Jane. We were all happily talking about brakes, before Buford Pusser showed up with his Troy-whacking stick.

Thank you again guys.  

 

A summary of my project attached for those interested --- Conversion of my 2013 built VS  from 4 lug (AC Ind) front disk and rear drums to wide-5 front disk  (AC Industries) and wide 5 rear drums.

 

Parts from SoCal imports-

- VS specific wide 5 front disk kit ( excludes master cylinder and brake lines).

- OEM front drum spindles (to replace non OEM spindles installed with 4 lug disk kit).

- '67 wide 5 rear drums (to fit #270 brake pad rear brake assembly installed by VS, on short swing axel).

- 20 wheel studs M12 x 1.5/ 20 lug nuts ball seat open ended M12- Porsche style

 

Parts from Cip1-

- 4 wheels 10D patterns, 15x 5.5, 3 3/4 back spacing- silver

- 1 wheels 10D patterns, 15x 4.5, spare tire

- 4 baby moons

 

Parts from CB Perf-

- aluminum drum covers 

- steel bradded brake lines (sourced from local Seattle shop)

 

- wheels mounted/ balanced/ rubber valve stem- Les Schwab 

 

TOTAL COST: smidge under $1100 (shopped the sales over the summer)

 

LABOR (newbie with limited brake system experience:

- 4hrs- to remove 4 lug disk front, spindles, rear drums, and install new front and rear parts.

 

- 4hrs- took three attempts to successfully bleed the system of air, and adjust rear drums.

 

 

 

LESSONS LEARNED-

- Andy and his team at SoCal imports/ AC industries are AWESOME.  They helped me plan the conversion, source the right parts for my car, and troubleshoot the installation.  Highly recommend working with these guys. 

 

- bleeding the system was tricky for me.  What helped me- jack the car one wheel at a time during the bleeding process to ensure bleeder valve is highest point in the system, and higher than Master Cylinder at time of bleeding.

 

  Start bleeding from the rear L, then rear R, then front R, n finally front L.  Also helped me to remove each front disk caliper from bracket, bring bleeder to 12 o'clock position on the rotor, as i bleed each front corner.  (air was trapped in caliper when I tried bleeding with the caliper installed in bracket.) re-attach to bracket after bleeding.

 

- rear drums- remember to adjust both pads on each rear drum.  I originally only adjusted one.  This contributed to the long pedal travel and weak braking.

 

- Alignment - for this I had to recruit an experienced VW guy.  A case of beer and a short lesson later and I completed my first alignment. Aligned to the specs Kirk from VS provided.

 

Thanking you again for your guidance.... And I'm sorry the thread went sideways.  For newbies like me, your help and guidance is priceless.  Your willingness to share your knowledge is what makes this forum special.

 

Took the car for a 50 mile mountain loop tonight to make sure everything worked. Car tracks straight and brakes straight.  Pedal travel is excellent, and I can lock all four in a straight line if I really step on it. I imagine it will get even better after the new pads are bedded.

 

Million thanks again,

Luis

 

 

 

Jane,

 

Early in the thread he disparagingly referred to the "Flipper" in a sarcastic, unwarranted, snide comment.

 

Flipper is a derogatory appellative that Scott has previously used in referring to Troy in one of his tirades... And, It closely followed a comment by Troy, so it was obvious who he was defaming...again!   

You people will never be ready for the true facts.. Smartest defense I have ever seen. "I did not do it" .....used a lot by people who  did do it.

Scott,

I doubt if anyone who knows you...and everyone you've ever met...is "ready for the true facts"

 

But please don't give up your crusade to educate and inform us of life's 'True Facts'...even if you sense you're being totally ignored.

Scott,

 

You clearly have a point you are trying to make, which is lost on the rest of us. You obviously believe you are enlightened, and the rest of us are confused. That makes you a bit of an evangelist for your point of view.

 

The thing is, you aren't presenting a very persuasive argument, nor are you modeling a personality that is very appealing. We don't see your truth, so you insult us. You berate members of the forum with vulgarities, and call it "truth-telling".

 

Over half of the collective membership here has hidden you. The owner and moderator of this forum has warned you. Your approach is not working to your advantage. The only tool in your box seems to be a hammer, which you insist makes you Thor, god of thunder. Actually, to most grown-ups, it makes you seem pretty myopic and easily disregarded.

 

Your approach is neither clever, nor insightful, nor persuasive. It must be a lonely existence, but you apparently believe you are a visionary on the side of "truth". If you truly believe this, perhaps a different approach would help your crusade.

 

This one doesn't seem to be working for you.

Well written, Stan.

Luis

A job well done.  I think wide 5's are the coolest and the most "authentic" looking wheels for these cars.  Had wide 5's on a previous Vintage suby spyder I once owned.  I curently have 4 lug wheels on my 356.  When I started pricing out what it would cost for a wide 5 conversion it was more like $1500+.  So I commend you for getting a good deal and in your perseverance. The VW wheel with the 8 ovals is a dead give away for those in the know.  So I was looking for something that looked more "authentic" but allowed me to stay with my 4 lug set up.  But they obviously had to hide the 4 lugs.  Carey Hines at Beck sell replica wheels from later 356's, I think a C.  10 5 sided holes and flush mount hub cap.  So I've got the 356 look without having to switch lugs, brakes etc.  Still not as cool as wide 5's.  But they will have to do for now.

HE DOESN'T NEED A LICENSE!!!!

 

IS THAT CLEAR ENOUGH FOR YOU?

True...well written, but the more we write ( give the guy the recognition he craves) the longer he will be here. Shun him...give him no recognition and he'll go away. It will take some perseverance. You won't here from me again about this...any takers? Keep it to yourself now.....unless you enjoy his company.

 

The Truth?

 

Son, we live in a world that has laws. And those laws have to be guarded by men with keyboards. Who's gonna do it? You? You, TRP? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for Sloan and you curse the DMV. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know: that my rants, while tragic, probably saved lives. And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, saves lives...You don't want the truth. Because deep down, in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on this keyboard. You need me on this board.
We use words like honor, code, loyalty...we use these words as the backbone to a life spent defending something. You use 'em as a punchline. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom I provide, then questions the manner in which I provide it! I'd rather you just said thank you and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you pick up a keyboard and stand a post. Either way, I don't give a damn what you think you're entitled to!

 

I think  Carey's 10-hole, 4-lug wheels with hub caps is a smart way to go.  I would join you, but I have a silver car and I like the chrome wheels. Carey's supplier won't supply in Chrome, so I would have to pay to get them redone, so, for now, don't plan to go that way.

TRP

That's hilarious.

 

But this is very simple

Go to edit profile

Your block list

Add members to block list

Filter:  Type in flyenby

When flyenby shows up in the box, click on box.  Then click on bottom to block.

Easy peasy.  No more moron.  Poof be gone.

 

Luis.

I'm very glad to hear that Ted's (and others) brake bleeding knowledge got you back on the road and enjoying your car.  That is the true essence of this forum.  It didn't seem logical to me that air could be trapped in the system, but obviously it can.  Like Jimbo always says, "I learn something new every time I'm on here."

Tom,

I've got 10 hole 4lug chromes on the VS.

They weren't that expensive...probably because the plating is pure cheepo crap!

 

I tried to duplicate the wheels (look) of Allen's Ruby. Close but no brass ring. My holes are round...his are a bit oval against a fantastic cranberry backdrop for a paint job! 

Thanks Luis, for posting all that info. I have a similar upgrade planed for my car and your very organized post will be a big help. I'll just fast forward through all the crazy stuff...but it was entertaining.

Nice work, Luis...congrats. Could you please explain your technique about front wheel alignment when you have a chance ? I tried mine a while back but my front tires tell me I didn't do a good job. Thanks..

Dave--I have spent a l-o-t of time going down that DIY alignment trail. I even got the Fastrax device for doing an alignment in your own garage without success.  I know that there are folks on the SOC who are able to align their front end---you are one of them but I was far from competent in my efforts.

 

I really lucked out and found an old timer who has done a lot of VW Bug alignments back in the day.  He did an amazing alignment on my VS and even knew how to compensate for the new steel belted radials knowing that there is a difference between the old bias ply tire specs and what is needed for radials.  (I have the numbers if anyone wants 'em).

 

My car was done about 18 months ago when I mounted the new Verdstiens and has driven perfectly ever since.  Before last year's Springtime Carlisle event I had him check the alignment  even though it seemed perfect, and the settings were exactly as they were set 18 months ago.  The tires show almost no wear at alafter maybe 5,000 miles since I mounted them.

 

I can't tell you how good my car drives.  There is absolutley no vibration and the steering wheel doesn't move a bit like cars I have driven where the steering wheel  jiggled going down the road.  With the front sway bar and te rear camber compensator it rides like it was on rails.  

 

I recently drove a new VS that a guy here in Hpt Springs bought a year ago and it has sat in his garage ever since. It was like driving a trractor. Bad steering, jiggley  \steering wheel, 

a sense that all the wheels were out of balance---just awful and it had only 500 miles on it.

This one will be sold because I know he hates it--so did I.  I let him drive mine and he was amazed at the difference but I know he doesn't have the love for the Speedster enough to sort it.  Dammit too, when he finished driving it he yanked the hand brake yo so high and with such force that it came apart!  That was a PITA to fix---but I got it back together.  Maybe he's telling others that my car is falling apart!

 

Anyway, I won't try to align my car again and will lave this job to an expert.

Thanks for that Jack but the trouble is, there is about only one guy in town left who does old VW service and he's got a lousy attitude with returning phone calls, setting up an appointment and just plain reliability. He's now backed down/ towards backed out of getting my body work done too. I'm losing confidence in him for my rebuild and took it upon myself to investigate the rear wheel, brake drum and backing plate damage. That was not my plan but I'm getting thru it.

 

I did find a reliable and well priced body shop nearby to do the glass and paint work but need to establish the mechanical situation before moving forward.

 

Just trying here to learn about front end alignment. Grinding forward slowly right now....

David - let me know if you need new backing plates / rear drums. 

 

I have two like new complete rear wide five assemblies I no longer need.

 

I've learned my 67 pan actually has 68 rear axles.

 

Let me know if you need them,
Ted

We should all be like Musbjim. The guy never says a bad word about anybody or anything and is always quick to compliment. Hats off to him.

EXACTLY!

'67 axles and tubes were a one year only thing (as was a lot on the '67 beetles), are 27 13/16" long and are referred to as long axle/short spline axles. '61(?) to '66 axles (and mating tubes) are 26 11/16" and are short/short; you can pick up 1 1/8" for tire clearance just by changing to the earlier assemblies. '68 and newer (and all type 3) axles (long/long) are 28 7/16". The longer spline section is the reason you have to cut 5/8" off the snout of the drum when using 4 bolt drums on earlier axles, or add a 5/8" spacer under the axle nut when using wide 5 drums on later axles.

 

You guys got irs in '69 so the long/long axles were pretty much a one year only thing as well, while here in Canada standard beetles were swing axle until about 1974(?).

 

Just think, Ted, shorter axles, some rims widened 1- 1 1/2" to the inside, 215/60's and it would all fit under the back fenders. And your new brakes will fit. WTTM! 

And since I'm partly to blame for leading you down this path; you're welcome buddy. Just doing my job.... 

 

Edit- Rather than rewriting the whole friggin' thing, I'll correct it here- going to the to '66 axles will net you 1 3/4" more fender clearance, since you have long/long axles. Even better! Start hitting those swap meets...

Thanks for that, Lads. I thought my chassis was a '66 but my rear tires are only 5.5" and are very tight to the fender which implies the axle might be from a '68. So Al, where exactly could I measure to find out if I have long or short axles ? From the side of the tranny out to the brake backing plate? Or would I be safe measuring the length of the spline? I have a damaged ( badly bent ) brake drum sitting on the desk beside me. Measure that spline?

Not sure an that, David. A guy I know is encyclopedic when it comes to VW's (and especially transaxles), so I'll ask Bruce; I think that the axle length difference between the >'66 and '67 axle tubes is made up in the end casting. He will know the differences in length. Give me a day or 2, and if I haven't got back to you, remind me. 

 

EDIT- That would help, but may not pinpoint it. I'll ask that as well.