Wide 5 wheel offset issue, Please help me

Welcome to the pointy end of the wedge.

 

How much room do you need? I've got set (of 4) 5-1/2" wide 5 chrome Mangles that have been re-centered. The rim portion of the wheel has been moved .6" towards the center of the car (I just measured them with a caliper). I drilled the rivets for the clips for a cleaner "capless" look, but the clips and rivets are available everywhere if a guy wanted to run caps.

 

The wheels have a set of Dunlop 185s (with about 2000 mi on them) mounted and balanced, with chrome stems. I replaced these with a set of Bivens AL wide 5s ($) several years ago, and these have been in my tire rack ever since. They are pretty special, as the re-centering was not inexpensive.

 

I'd sell them, if the deal was right. If you are interested, you can send me a dialog, and perhaps we can work something out. I'm in central Illinois, so freight wouldn't be a killer.

 

Let me know if you are interested.

Autobahn (first name makes this easier..)- Talk to Stan; it's probably the best route. I've had wheels widened and it's close to the same amount of work; the centers have to be cut loose and then you have the opportunity to put them where you want. Al

Ok it sounds like this maybe the solution I am looking for. Stan please dialog me about the wheels.  Thanks Tab

No wide 5's on mine.  I have 5.5" Porsche 914 2L Fuchs with 185/65x15 tires.  I ground off the roll over fiberglass lip on the top inside of both rear openings.  This actually makes the car more authentic as original has no real lip. The driver's side is a good 1/4" tighter.  This difference in side to side clearance seems to be the casting of the body as the steel chassis lines up fine.  

 

Aren't their shorter rear axels on some bug years that might get you a 1/2" narrower stance?  I actually have 3/8" spacers on the front of mine to clear the brake calipers.

60 or 61-'66- short/short spline- 26 11/16"

'67- short axle/long spline- 27 13/16"

'68 & newer- long axle/long spline- 28 7/16"

Earlier axles and tubes can be fitted to later swingaxle transaxle cases (and vice/versa). IRS is the same as '68 & newer. IRS trailing arms can be narrowed 1"; left side type 3 automatic axles are the right length. IRS transaxle cases with 2 removeable side covers can be converted to swingaxle; the differential has to be changed.

When you buy your conversion kit can't you buy it with the offset that you need?

???Are you referring to what I posted above???

Well kind of... I've been thinking about converting my 4 bolt to the wide 5 lug. They sell these conversion kits that have different offsets. I would think that instead of going through the trouble of customizing the two rear wheels to fit in the wheelwell you could buy the rear brake and drum assembly that would work with your stock rims.

this will not work.  problem is, the stub axle/bearing assembly is too far 'out' to fit 5.5's on a non-flaired without custom tires.

 

option 1: buy different wheels that factor this offset in (like Stan has suggested and offered)

 

option 2: change the mounting point of the stub axle / bearing (therefore moving the brake mounting surface inboard - allowing the wheels of choice.  this is what i did.  take a look at  my site for lots of picture of this.  you'll have to hunt around for them.

Mango - Can you post the details about option #2 please. Sounds like you could save me a whole lot of trouble.

ALB pretty much covered it.

 

1) 1966 drum brakes and hardware on IRS backing plate

2) cut IRS drum nipple off (12mm) and use as spacer - you'll know what i am talking about when you put the 1966 drum on the stub axle

3) make/buy narrowed IRS trailing arms (ALB said 1" - i narrowed mine 1.5")

4) buy two passenger side T3 automatic IRS axles from EMPI.  make sure you don't buy a set as the tranny is offset a little.  you want to buy two of the shorter ones

5) put it all together

6) drink beer and party.

7) be hungover and drink water

8) go for a drive with your narrowed arse.

 

Rusty-

 

I don't think that's gonna' be easier, but that's just me...

I'm reading all of this and I'm thinking the four bolt with hubcaps are looking pretty good right now.

 

So the whole point of doing it this way is so that you can use stock wheels correct?

oh, i agree - definately not as easy as bolting up a new wheel.

 

but IMO - it's the dish on the wider 5.5" that gives it the bad-ass look.  my $0.02.

your call.

 

if it was easy - everyone would have it, no?

No I agree - it's worth the effort. It's just a tad intimidating though.

I recall putting oversize tires on my '72 914.  Solution to keep tires from rubbing was to the take a baseball bat and roll it around the tire against the metal.  Gave addition 3/8" without messing up the paint.  But then again I had to mess with the hell hole rust and rust on jack points.

al-la-baseball-bat

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ayqAB1AcRQ

"make/buy narrowed IRS trailing arms"

 

--these exist in the market?

Ok Mango tell us how you narrowed the trailing arms if you would be so kind. I am an excellent welder and have a full repair shop. Tools are not an issue, I just need to know were to start.  FYI all the members on this board are a HUGE help in getting my speedster done !!!! 

Thanks

Here's a sample, not ready for these yet so passing it on.

 

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/cla...etail.php?id=1455801

http://airkewld.com/products-p...arms-i-arms-deposit/

 

$750 pair raw (about $700 more than i'd pay)

 

and i'm not totally sure how these "give the vehicle a drop from 1-3 inches" - but that is beside the point.  you asked about narrowed trailing arms, not magic drop trailing arms.

no real magic. 

 

1) buy a magnetic angle finder (of use a digital one - i used both just cause i have them )

 

2) clamp one of the trailing arms in a big ass vice on the mounting surface that mates to the spring plate.

 

3) measure the camber and caster angle.  this is your baseline.

 

4) cut the bearing housing off :

(i know it says .93".  i went 1.5" instead after i looked at my axles / CV's)

 

5) spot weld the housing back on (obviously whatever distance offset you want).  i'd recommend spot welding them at the front or rear - that way you can put the angle finder and tweak it before the rear spot weld.

 

be forewarned (take this with a grain of salt as it sounds like you know what you are doing) - running a bead of weld pulls the housing several degrees out of alignment.  spot front, spot rear, spot top, spot bottom, repeat, then beads - all with angle finder on it.

 

now - regarding the angle - i knew i was going to run really really low, so i put extra positive camber in it.  1.5 degrees if i remember correctly.  i also added 0.5" caster.

Mango- I was under the impression that 26mm was the furthest you could go with the type 3 automatic (left side) axles, so good to know that you've done 1.5" and they still work. Any modifications to the axles or cv's? I know someone that has narrowed their trailing arms 1" (in a stock fendered beetle); with type 1 drums and 7x15 Fuchs alloys, to run a 215 or 225mm wide tire he needed to run some low profile spring plate bolts to clear. Depending on the wheel offset (or if running type 3 rear drums, which add 1/2 or 5/8" width) that extra 1/2" could be valuable...hmm...I've learned something today....

 

I remember reading (Hot VW's) about someone narrowing their irs trailing arms either 3 or 5", but when going that much the torsion housing has to be narrowed as well (and custom shorter axles made), so it's much more involved (and more expensive). This was in a Ghia with some huge rubber in the back. It can also be done with a swing axle- the axle tubes are pulled from the bearing housings, the appropriate amount cut from the tubes and then they are pressed back into the housings. Custom shorter axles are required and again, the torsion housing needs to be narrowed. IIrc, they put G60-15's on 10" rims under the stock rear fenders of a beetle. The inner fender panels, package tray and rear seat all had to be "reworked". Al

 

PS- I looked at Airkeweld's link and I don't get the "magic drop" bit either!

Thanks Mango, I'm going to cut and weld later this week. 

Way beyond my ability. Very cool to know it can be done, and how. Thanks, Mango.

you could totally do it ed.  it's not complicated.

 

re: axles - i'm not 100% sure if it was drivers or  passengers side on the t3 auto.  if anyone is going to do this - double check that (and post back).  i'm 95% it was passengers, but IICR many places were calling it left / right - which is screwing with my memory

 

i also wouldnt recommend cutting the torsions before you have the axles in front of you to see how much you can get away with.

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/for...ewtopic.php?t=252078

 

4th post down

Well here is an update. I cut and moved the bearing housing inward 1 inch today. I checked it with an angle gauge to make it square and straight. Then I got some steel sheet and got the plasma cutter out and made panels and pieces to cover it and make it look nice. Pressed new bearings and seals. Then I ran out of steam and was tired. So Ill put the arms on tomorrow and let you guys know how the wheels fit after the major surgery LOL. They off to the next step of the project. This was a ground up restore, from the floors, engine, transmission, suspension, interior, carpet, and the wiring. Wow I'm getting closer each day, but I have still alot ahead of me. The devil is in the details

right on!  (love to see some pics of the fab stuff too)

Measure, cut, position , weld, check for fitment. Yeah I have wheel clearance on both sides!!! I'm working on lowering the rear now. I'll get some pictures posted. This really was not that hard to do! I cut the bearing housing off and moved it inward 1 inch. Then I used steel sheet stock 1/8 inch and plated the openings in to make it solid as well as look good

Sounds great! As Mango said, we need pics...Al