Wide Fives

What is the key benefit gained by going with wide five discs/hubs? It seems that the cost difference is significant.

If you don't go with wide fives, but still want disc brakes all around and a 5 bolt lug pattern that will take Porsche style 10 slot wheels...is this possible?

Does anyone know what the options are to get four wheel disc brakes, and be able to fit 10 slot porsche style wheels. This is for a IM. What other changes are required?

If you are looking for an alternitive to wide 5 and want 10 hole Porsche wheels you can go with the 130mm Porsche pattern. The wheels are slightly different in that there is a raised countour around each hole. Going with the 130mm pattern would also allow for Fuchs (the best looking wheel ever manufactured) in the future.

Wide 5s can be a pain to get balanced in some areas because an adaptor is needed and some places will not spin balance them. If you are not going to run the car without hubcaps you can't tell if they are wide 5s or not. Unfortunetly, the nipple hubcaps will not fit on the 130mm wheels, as far as I know. You would need to use 356C caps, and that might not be the direction you want to go in. With the 356C hardware on the car, it would look like an original that had been updated to "C" standards.

Dale; I beg to differ with you; I can definitely tell if the wheel is wide five or four lug even with the hubcaps on. There's a definite difference in that the four lugs have 8 larger holes while the wide fives have 10 smaller ones. Maybe from a very respectable distance it could be hard to spot but I sure can tell even from afar.

I agree with the rest of your post; wide fives are getting harder to get balanced as time goes by. I also agree with you in that the Fuchs look awesome in the 356 even if they weren't equipped with them originally. Just look at Bruce Willis' black Speedster in the movie The Kid; just perfection.....

Well I am going through this now. There was some serious thinking about the front discs conversion. My car has the cheap chrome yet nice looking wheels that have the 205mm wide 5 pattern. That I want to keep. The wide 5 conversion kit is rediculously expensive. I think it is because it is made in small batches. So I opted for the 5 x 130mm which incidentally is the Porsche pattern and opens up the possibility for P-wheels in the future.

To keep the 205mm wheels I will temporarily change the disc only to 4 bolt and get 4 bolt wheels that are the same as my 5 bolt back (pain but OK) until I decide what mags to put on in which case I will replace the discs ($30.00 each) since I will already have them in stock. You see I installed the 5 x 130 only to find that my wheels will not fit. But all I need to do is change the disc and I am good to go. The new tie rod, caliper, spindle and bearings are the same regardless.

Also good luck just trying to buy the wide5 disc alone. Seems that they come in a kit and that's the way it is.

I cannot justify $600+ US to $240, braking is braking. Unless of course you are stuck on getting them.

Ricardo, you are correct. I knew that but failed to mention it. The 10 slot wheels look better in my biased eyes.

Let me see if I have this right.

I would not run the car around without hubcaps, so wide fives aren't too important to me. I really would like to have the 10 slot Porsche style wheels. I can still get four wheel disc brakes, and have a Porsche 5 bolt/lug 130mm pattern that will work with the Porsche style 10 slot wheels. So everything is okay...except nipple style hubcaps won't fit the 130mm Porsche wheels? Do the chrome baby moons fit these wheels and are they available?

The 5 bolt Porsche 10 slot wheels also allow me the option of going with a Bivens alloy wheel or a Fuchs style wheel if I wanted to change from the chrome original 10 slot wheels.

Please advise if I have this wrong.

The smoothies are available. About 10$ each at cip1.com. I had to buy 2 of them for the 4 bolt wheels that I will have in the front.

That's it Biggs.

Buy it right the first time. Go with the new CB Wide 5 AL Discs, you'll have a lighter system for unsprung weight and the new CBs use a MB pad that you will be able to replace locally. Run a set of chrome wide 5s and those Super Caps for the look you like. If you want to change wheels there are options.

Elementary my dear Watson... you can buy an extra front or rear hub and use it as a balancing adapter. You'll have to bolt each wheel on one at a time, but this will allow positive spin balancing.

Smoothies? Is that a blended fruit drink or are you speaking of the moon hubcaps, baby moons, the semi-sphere non emblem hub caps? They probably will NOT fit the 356C, 130mm bolt pattern, 10 slot steel wheel.

Okay guys...I am really thinking of going the route of 5 lug discs all the way around, that way I can fit proper 10 slot chrome wheels, or go with Fuchs, Bivens, etc.... If I went wide fives, then it is only wide five 10 slot wheels or those really beautiful Bivens wheels, but there are no other choices....the choices are very limited if I go wide fives....Does this make sense??? I have more wheel choices if I go 5 lug 130mm porsche discs... in lieu of wide fives...like Dale did.

Jim, the IM looks almost ready...looking NICE...those wide fives and Bivens are great.

Well that's the thing. If you have an exisiting drum brake car. How much do you want to spend. Me, I can't justify the price of 5 wide conversion kit in relation to 5 x 130 P type. It just doesn't make sense! Also while drawing the cars over the last few months, all cars being equal, I have noticed that the wheels have made some huge differences. So I am not sold on wide5 since it is expensive (if you are going from drums) and the stopping power is well, the same. I have also noticed that getting just the disc if you ever need to change it, is hard to get where a 5 x 130 disc is $30.00.

I would (again if you are converting from drum) take that $500.00 diff and throw it into something that makes more sense or seems like it is worth the price.

But that's my opinion and having opinions is what makes these cars so special.

The pic shows wide five steel powder coated wheels Henry has on it during testing and work. That's the CB AL Wide five system.
Jim

I understand your reasoning Mike and your post is full of issues I thought about when selecting my system. I just like the 'sans' hubcap look and for that, I think the W5s are almost required. The Bivens are just Nice Candy in a retirement build.

Part of the advantage of the AL CB units is the weight loss at each corner.. making for better handling and tracking. For me, and yes they cost, the Bivens weight was just another factor in that unsprung weight. Now, I am not about to be taking this car into a sweeper at 100% of it's capabilities, or even 80% of my own (I am not a trained track driver, nor have I ever raced.. just another driver). But still, if I am going to spend X amount for a beautiful Speedster, then it made sense to me to get great handling in that package... 24mm Torsion Bars, Koni Adjustables, 19mm Sways, and the ligter brakes and wheels. All of these can be done in the 130mm size too.. so it's just not a W5 - 5x130 thing.

The CB AL Disc W5 pads are off the shelf MB units. Not hard to find.

The rest of your post makes 100% sense to me, Mike. In fact I was thinking about upgrading my VS... Discs, a new 2110, other stuff.. by the time I factored in that stuff, I was looking at having nearly 33G in my VS (counting a blown mexicrap VS engine that came with it, a 1776, caps, seats, exhaust, etc.) I looked at IM prices and thought; hmmmm.

I can't wait to show you the results of your work (!). I will send you something after Knotts! In fact I'll show you something on p-mail tomorrow. Thanks bro.

Jim

I thought I jump in here with my 2 toya regarding wide 5s, 5x130s, and 4 bolt VW wheels. When I had my car built in 2002, the idea of 4 wheel discs was pretty novel to me, and a bit of a stretch in terms of the "do I really need this" questions we all ask. These cars are light, and modern subcompacts seem to do just fine with front disc/ rear drum set-ups. But I really wanted the 4 wheel discs, and so got them in the only available configuration I knew of (at the time) for chrome wheels and nipple caps- 4 bolt VW. I've never regretted the decision to go with rear discs.

5x130s are very cool, and were available in 2002 when I had the car built. A nice 5x130 brake/wheel package will run considerably less than what you would spend on a wide 5 set-up, especially if you go in the direction of CBs and Bivens. Dale's speedster's got 'em (5x130 Fuchs), and they look very, very cool from the pictures I've seen.

They do not, however, look original. We're getting down to minutia here- I mean really, who is aware how many slots original 356/A wheels have in them? Or whether Fuchs came on cars in 1957? Answer: VERY few, and there are even less who actually care.

I'm one who does. Ever since I found out about the 10 slot thing, my 8 slot wheels have bugged me. I have completely lost all sense of perspective concerning details. The 8 hole wheels bug me. The center hand-brake bugs me. The inside of the trunk bugs me, for crying out loud.

If it doesn't matter to you, don't do it- there is no functional improvement you will ever be able to discern if you use the car the way 98% of us do. Get the discs- you'll appreciate the difference over drums (I've had both). If 8 slots are OK with you- get the 4 lugs- they're the cheapest option. If you want something really sporty, and cool for a bit more money- the 5x130s with Fuchs are hard to beat. If you are a full tilt retro-grouch (like me), you'll never be satisfied with anything besides a wide 5 set-up, so just do it now and get it over with. It's REALLY hard to justify after the fact.

Stan
I agree with you.When I first got my car, I had the 8 slots and it bugged me.Thank god the previous owner had put adapters to go from 10 to 8 slots (do not ask me why)so the only thing I had to do was to take them off.Of course I do not have disc brakes but I love the look of the wide fives.

Lambros, those are very nice shots of your Speedster and the house. I like the shot looking over the tonneau from the right rear..

And yes, I think the wide 5s really transformed your Speedy.

That is what I mean. If your going through a build $500 here or $500 there after what you guys are putting into those gorgeous IM's isn't much and it is the right time to do it. But to do the conversion and try to justify the expense, in my opinion doesn't make sense.

My 66 Ghia stock was 5 wide....10 slot rims. Changed to awesome mags and discs. I guess it's in what turns your crank.

Thanks Jim. Of course my speedster is not as good as yours but it does the job for now.