Will's leaky Speedster/new engine!?

id do the smaller engine with kadrons. ihad that motor and no problems...I wanted more HP, got a 2300 something with weber 44s and had nothing but problems with webers clogging even though it was a new car,,caused me to sell car.

What size are the Kadrons?

 

if they're 36 or under, probably not.  If they're 38-40's then they should be OK on a 2,110.

DON'T DO IT!

 

I tried big Kadrons on a 2110. You won't like it.

 

Rob a bank if you must. Find a set of 40 Dellorotos on the Samba or somewhere else. Send them to Blackline Racing in Salt Lake City for the full meal deal. Get a sync-link linkage. You'll be $1000 lighter than a set of Kadrons, and 100x happier.

 

It's an order of magnitude better setup.

Good move

> On Sep 14, 2015, at 5:09 PM, SpeedsterOwners.com <alerts@hoop.la> wrote:
>

Can you increase the size of the venturis on a Kadron? If they're like Webers you can. 

A stock Weber 40 idf has a 28mm venturi but you can increase them to 34mm, which makes them more than adequate for a 2110. The smaller venturis give you a little more torque but the engine is happier with the larger chokes. 

If your Kadrons are single throats they'll strangle your 2110. They can work but you won't be happy with the overall performance.

Of course, practically anything will be an improvement over what you have currently...

Aren't all Kadrons single throat?

Regarding new Webers or any new carburetor.

Out of the box they are NOT good to go. The innards are usually covered with crap accumulated in the assembly plant.

You should always disassemble them and clean them prior to running them on your engine.

I can't say this about all builders but I know that Vintage and JPS do not clean the carbs.

I don't know, might just give it back to Dingleball for my $$$ and buy a new Beck...

 

Or this:

 

http://intermeccanica.com/athi...al-air-cooled-s.html

 

All nicely broken in, and top of line quality 

 

Plus, you can pick it up in Hawaii.

 

Aloha.

Sorry, but I've been out of the loop for a few days. Will....how does a mid $20's Vintage get up to $39K and up ?  What did Kirk offer to do about the bad motor ? Will he just give you your money back if you return the car as it sits right now ?Thanks...

Terry- yes you can.

I believe Stan had some Kadrons modified with bigger throttle plates  (from 40 to 44mm; Stan, please correct me if I'm wrong) and I've heard from other guys that they could never get them running properly. I think the problem is that the passages in the carb don't flow enough for the carbs to meter properly with the larger throttle plates. I've never heard of people complaining after putting 30 or 32mm venturis in the stock 40mm kadrons, though, and that would suit your purposes. I'd be wary of using any bigger than 32's. What cam is going with the 1.25 rockers?

 

X2 what David said- I thought the original purchase price was $29,000? Is VS not going to fix the engine? If you could get him to take it back, that might be the best option, although...

 

 

You're right about the venturi size, Al. I found the ideal size for my 2110 are 32mm.

David and Al, I called Kirk who is going to call my shop: VPA in San Luis Obispo tomorrow morning.

 

Their bid on replacing the 1915 using only my pistons/barrels and heads came to a little over $4K so who knows what Kirk will do, hopefully, the right thing.

 

The car cost $39,000 out the door including tax. If I purchase a 2010cc with 44 IDF Webers (totally tuned/gone through), I will then be into this car for $33,870 and with the $1800 labor to install tin, fan, oil lines and motor, I will then be into the car for $35,670. Crazy figure when you see used ones with less than a thousand miles on them for just over 20K!

 

There is something to be said for the "Madness" described here on this site as Kathy and I really want to keep this car and make it work, now that's just crazy!

 

Oh, and that doesn't include a $600 A1 muffler system which will allow the motor to breathe. (that will take it over $36,000)

 

By the way, that was a typo earlier (I deleted the post) when I stated the car started at $39,000, it was supposed to be $29,000...duh! Old and senile? Who me?

The price advantage of a VS over a Beck or used IM is not as big as it used to be.  Vintage should be very generous on whatever you need to spend to make the new car from them be what you thought you bought.  Unless you're going for a ridiculous HP boost they should cover the whole thing.  This is, of course, my humble opinion.  Other's mileage may vary.

Thanks for clearing that up, Will. And yeah, you have it bad! Didn't take long either...

 

The A1 Sidewinder is a nice piece, tucks up nicely (so it doesn't look like a regular merged header and muffler hanging down) and will give you good power. According to the header chart below, 1 1/2" tubing is the right size for a 2110 to 5850 rpm, but I've also read (from Tiger, I think) that if you're on the fence as to size that the long primaries allow using the next size up tubing without killing bottom end. I know a number of guys here with larger than 2 liter engines use the 1 5/8" sidewinder and are happy with it. Al 

 

PS- did your latest post just disappear?

Before you make your final decision spend some time on this site and maybe give the owner/builder a call for advice.

http://kaddieshack.com/

 

Check out his Kad-powered engine build dyno sheets.

Really- it's the plenum based carb that's the problem. Individual runner carbs are the only way to fly on these engines. I did not want it to be so, but it is. Kads idle on 2 cylinders, need a balance tube to run right, and are harder to tune in every way.

 

My carbs were modified (by the then Kadron genius, circa 2002, AJ Sims) with a big throttle plate (I want to say 42 mm, but I could be wrong), and all tyhe bells and whistles. They were untunable. I had as much in those carbs as I did in my replacement Dellortos, which is sad in retrospect. I still have them, and would probably sell them for pennies on the dollar if I could get past the guilt of it.

Almost every (a couple highly regard the Kadrons) expert I've spoken with recently said just what Stan stated, that in order for a VW motor to idle and run properly at all speeds, it needs 4 runners, one for each cylinder. I'm going with the (overwhelming) majority on this one.

Yeah, Webers and Dellortos run better than kadrons (or any dual single barrel carburetor kit, for that matter), but some people paint them as pure junk, which is not true either. For those on a budget, they're a wonderful upgrade to the stock center mounted single mounted Solex and a lot of fun on a mild engine, making more power than the stock carb will, but for the ultimate in power, smoothness and adjustability, you can't beat the Webers or Del's. Al

FI & electronic engine controls for me next season baby!

> On Sep 15, 2015, at 12:04 PM, SpeedsterOwners.com <alerts@hoop.la> wrote:
>

Well, regardless of what happens with Kirk, we are on our way to a new and glorious motor.

 

After much searching, listening and weighing of information, from builders, retailers and you all, I have made my decision and we are moving ahead.

 

John at Powerhaus in Torrance, CA is going to build us a 2110 in a new aluminum bubble-top case with a forged, counter-weighted 82mm crank pushing Chevy "H-beam" connecting rods pushing AA 90.5 pistons. We'll have 044 heads with 40x35 valves opened by a 1:25 rockers. Carbs will be 44IDF's cleaned, re-jetted and tuned there at Powerhaus. We'll have a streamline Scat sump which holds a bit over a quart and is very thin.

 

I'm stoked but bummed that I'll have to wait 3 more weeks to get my car running. If you've not heard of them, check out their website: www.powerhausvwparts.com and drool over the 20' long stainless counter where they build the motors, you could eat off the counter or floor for that matter, surgical cleanliness!

 

Jerry and John listened to our goals: a quiet, torque-monster that comes-on around 2200 rpm and will be happy cruising along at 2600-3000.

 

The exhaust system is still undecided. The quiet-option A1 with the center pipe ala Carrera is on the table and I'm told is quieter than the Vintage Speed Speedster Replica exhaust but I'm still not sure.

 

Sacto Mitch has a Vintage Speed and loves it but Pat Downs was telling me about an engine he dynoed with an A1 and how when he put on the Vintage Speed system the motor lost 15 horsepower. I forgot to ask what rpm that was at, it may be higher than I care about. I like the stainless steel but don't really want to sacrifice 15 hp for it!

 

Madness, for sure!

 

 

Go A-1 all the way! You won't regret it unless you do otherwise...You are going to love that motor!

sounds like a perfect motor, what liftcam do they use?

Yeah- what cam will go in it? And btw- you can get the A1 sidewinder in stainless. Al

Bob and Al, it's a Scat C35 with straight-cut gears.

 

Al, thanks, didn't know that, I'll ask about it. Tiger just sent me some photos of the center-rear ceramic/silver unit, looks very cool but I also want to know how quiet it is. I've heard they're the quietest exhaust that still flows well.

 

Will, I don't doubt that you lose some power with the Vintage Speed exhaust, but I wasn't looking for a rocket ship with this engine (2024 cc, 90.5 x 78.8). And, if that 15 hp is at peak power, the difference at lower revs, where we do most of our driving, is probably less.

 

What matters most with our wide-spaced gears is low-end torque, and there's enough of that with this engine and exhaust. What I like most is the more 'civilized' sound - a nice, low-pitched hum at cruise speeds of 2500 - 3000, that's easy to live with on longer trips. It's noticeably quieter than most of the A1's I've heard. One of these days, I'll get around to posting a video here.

 

No matter what exhaust you choose, another thing to consider is whether you want heat or not. Over-sized exhaust tubing means over-sized heater boxes, which ain't cheap - if your performance exhaust accepts them at all. Decent one and a half inch heater boxes (some are better than others) for the Vintage Speed set me back another $350, plus some custom welding to make them fit. (Did someone say 'Madness' ?) I know you can put heater boxes on some A1's, but not all, I think.

 

At any rate, living near our chilly coast, you (or maybe that someone in your right seat) are more likely to use the car year-round with heat.

 

Just remember that money does you no good at all until you spend it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Mitch, would you mind posting some photos of your exhaust? I would like to know what it sounds like, could you do a video from your phone and post that?

 

I agree that Pat Down's comment on the hp loss using the Vintage Speed unit was probably at a higher rpm than my motor (hopefully) will ever hit. I'll call him tomorrow and verify that.

 

 

Will, here you go.

 

Click for more detail.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks Mitch, that's a good looking exhaust...and compact!

 

Will, the compactness is what most of the critics don't like about it.

 

It's technically not an extractor exhaust. As I understand it, all of the plumbing on an A1 Sidewinder creates equal length pipes for each cylinder that are tuned to use the pulses from one cylinder to create a suction for the next cylinder in the firing order.

 

I've heard that the Vintage Speed makes some attempt to do that internally, but that it's not nearly as effective as the A1.

 

Most everyone here seems to prefer the A1 for that reason.

 

I'll try to do a video in the next few days so you can hear what the Vintage Speed sounds like.

 

 

Not me Mitch.  I prefer the A1 for it's looks, the extra horsepower is a bonus.

Mitch, the original Porsche and VW exhaust systems weren't "extractors" either, but they were efficient and quiet!

 

I am going to call Pat Downs in a few minutes and ask him what rpm range the Vintage lost horsepower at.

 

I really like the compactness...have I already said that?

 

...and the looks!

A-1 with V clamp is the way to go.  Just be careful when choosing a muffler.  Get the wrong one and the system can be on the loud side.

Ron, which muffler should I be looking for and which one/s should I avoid? It looked to me like there were only two mufflers offered by A1, a typical ovoid muffler and a cherry-bomb type, please elaborate?

 

Oh, and what's a V-clamp?

Not the Cherry-Bomb type if you want quiet.

Will, I'll be choosing a muffler for my A-1 header next week.  I ordered my A-1 without a muffler, because I've heard they're on the loud side. 

A V-clamp or band is a quick connect so the muffler can be taken off quickly for valve adjustments.  It's a option when ordering an A-1 header.

Will- the more conventional looking oval muffler is the quieter of the 2 (I'm surprised you had to ask). Some people like the sound of the muffler (it is a little louder when you "step on it") and some people don't. Check out Youtube.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

  

 

 

Just spoke with Pat Downs who remembered the hp loss with Vintage Speed exhaust being "across the board", not just at higher rpm.

 

Pat said he had to re-jet the mains one or two sizes smaller to get it running right.

Will - for your audio reference here is a video of my VS (1835, 1:25 lifters, dual Kadron, A-1 Sidewinder with center exhaust).

 

Very sporty sound on accelleration yet fairly quiet at cruising rpm's.