Will's leaky Speedster/new engine!?

Valves can be done without removing the muffler on the newer version.

 

Thanks Bill, I'll check it out when I get home, Kindle Fire won'd open the pics.

Just ordered the center outlet in silver.

Very true, Will; even when I think I know the answer, I've learned to listen to someone else's explanation. You only learn something new when your ears are open all the time! With what size tubing did you order your Sidwinder? 

Will it's not your Kindle.  The photos didn't post. 

Bill, it works on my home pc, just couldn't open the videos on my Kindle while out and about today.

 

Al, I ordered the 1 1/2" system. Jerry (Powerhaus) says my motor should develop 150-160 hp

I originally had a magnaflow on my car and it sounded a lot like Jim's.  Awesome with the top down, but holey moley it was loud with the top up.

 

 

Wow, I love it when people call me up for advice on exhaust, carbs, etc and then use what I say to have another builder do the job for less money. There is a difference, and you do get what you pay for. Also, a 2110cc engine with single valve springs and un ported 044 heads is NOT going to produce 150-160 HP. I dyno hundreds of engines every year and  for a 2110cc engine to produce this kind of power with the parts you listed is impossible. I would figure on seeing around 120 tops. I would recommend having the engine dyno'd so you get what you were described and paid for.

     BTW, The aluminum case you are getting will add 20 degrees to your oil temp. Please do not call me to explain this, I have a busy schedule and need to get customers engines finished. I just wanted to warn you ahead of time because I care about people and do not want them to be unhappy.

Pat

 

I just have to say that the 2332 cc engine you built for Henry to go in my just sold Speedster could not have been better.  With 50,000 km on it, it has run perfectly with not a hint of any problem.  No oil leaks, nothing, and it pulls like a train.

 

When it comes to air cooled engines, you are the guru.

 

I agree but it is the nature of the bus...you get what you pay for!

It is the nature of the business for sure, I'm used to it lol.  When someone does it and then goes on the SOC the same day is pretty bold. If you have enough faith in your engine builder to hand him over $6k engine, shouldn't he be the one to ask questions about an exhaust system?????? 

    Yes, this kind of stuff upsets me, but I will still help the guy if he needs advice, just need to cool off a little.

   I have seen this kind of stuff for 30 years. Hopefully he gets what he wants and has the car he and his wife want, that's what matters.

    

You're a gentleman Pat.

> On Sep 17, 2015, at 12:14 PM, SpeedsterOwners.com <alerts@hoop.la> wrote:
>

I try to always be, in situations like this, it can be a challenge.

Pat is building a 2110 long block for me and I have 30 days left of a 90 day wait - the anticipation is killing me - however after my initial "consultation" on the build I have had no problem sleeping at night.  You get what (and who) you pay for.

Amen to the above thoughts.

 

Pat, I simply called to get your thoughts on the difference between the Vintage Speed and A1 exhaust systems, which you gave me. I didn't think I was pimping you for information, leading you to believe you were going to build my motor.

 

I had already heard from John and Jerry at Powerhaus that the A1 produced more horsepower but neither told me it had been dynoed (which they may have) and I didn't ask how they reached that conclusion.

 

The heads have dual valve springs and yes, I think Jerry's estimation of the horsepower is perhaps overrated but even if it's 100 hp, it's twice what I had with the horrible engine that came in the car.

 

I have done my "due diligence" and if in so doing, have hurt some feelings or gone against the grain here on the SOC, sorry but that's how I learn. I ask everyone I can think of, every question I can remember (I'm 63 so that varies with the day) and then I make (I hope) an intelligent decision.

 

Powerhaus has my business not just based on their history of 15 years of builds but on the helpful attitude they exude over the phone. I don't want a drag racer, I want a granny-going-to-church car which has torque and is quiet and dependable and I have every confidence John will build just that.

 

Perhaps this will seal my fate on SOC as a total loser...I've also decided not to run the A1 system after all. After listening to Jim's video and others on YouTube, I've decided that those are much too loud for us.

 

Mitch sent me two videos he made yesterday which convinced me that the Vintage Speed exhaust system is the way for me to go. I like how compact they are, there's less piping under the engine and engine compartment to generate heat and they are noticeably quieter, the 5 year warranty helps too.

 

I also like the stock look and the fact that they are entirely stainless steel. Yes, we may take a horsepower hit but I think it will be worth it.

 

OK, now am I dis-communicated?

I didn't quote you an engine for a drag car, I quoted you an engine that is guaranteed to make the power I say it does and give you years of service.

    Powerhaus would not know the difference in power between the A-1 and the Vintage speed exhaust because they do not dyno engines, just saying.......

   My feelings are not hurt at all, just a little set back by your boldness of using others knowledge and time with an attitude like you are showing in your reply, I was on the phone with you for 40 minutes Tuesday. I had already read this thread yesterday when you called for more information about the Vintage Speed exhaust. I was still very helpful in my reply, I'm sure you will agree? You made a decision with your engine builder, you shouldn't take up someone else's time when you are paying someone for their expertise. My time is valuable just like theirs.

     Good luck with your car. From what you told me on the phone, you have had nothing but problems, wishing they don't persist into the future.

Pat, I expressed my gratefulness for your time in both of our conversations, I'm not sure what "attitude" I'm expressing here on SOC, frankly, I'm feeling a little "picked-on" so maybe I'm getting defensive?

 

Maybe it has something to do with spending $29,000 for a "new" car, having it fail catastrophically, three times in a week. Towing it to an impeccable shop to learn that the motor is trash, was trash when it was installed by the builder, getting quotes on motor builds from $4,000 to $7,000 not including installation, all the while watching the seasons change and instead of driving this over-priced replica, sitting here dueling verbally with folks I don't even know, about things I wish I didn't even have to know about.

I have done my "due diligence" and if in so doing, have hurt some feelings or gone against the grain here on the SOC, sorry but that's how I learn.

 

   Doing your "due diligence" to learn by taking up some ones time is what bothers me Will. It's not just you, it happens to me on a daily basis.

    I have no problem helping you with your car or engine questions in the future but I ask that you please do it by email or PM me on the SOC.

Ya done good, Pat. We've never been introduced but your rep is excellent +++ from what I hear.  You handled this like a gentleman with patience and care from what I see.

 

And I can understand the stress that Will has been under during the last week(s) or so, having bought a 'brand new Speedster', the engine of which is complete crap.

 

I know I would not have been so calm as he has been.

 

Here's hoping it all gets resolved, and Pat continues building the best engines out there.

 

To the both of you -

@ Will,

 

Any insights as to what resolution has been offered to make this right?

All sympathy, Will. Hoping you get it sorted and on the road soon, and not out-of-pocket. 

Will, don't feel bad as you did nothing wrong.

 

Pat, I fully understand ware you're coming from. Thank you for your support to those on this forum!

I was a Realtor for 15 years and had helped advise people that would be gathering information and then end up going to someone else or they just weren't confident in what their brother-inlaw/Realtor was telling them.

 

 It's frustrating when you spend time away from other more productive things but that all part cost of doing business. I was successful at what I did and that's all that matters.

 

Will, we can't wait to see the SEG on your face once on the road again...

I guess its like this for me. I work for years developing techniques to build these engine better. I find what parts work the best, what engine size best suits them, I even design parts for them that have been copied by other companies. When someone calls me and says, 'hey I want you to build an engine for me" can you give me some of your time with ides for the best engine? Absolutely I will and I tell them what is the best cylinder head, cam, exhaust, etc. Then I find out a day later that someone is building this engine for this person and allot of the parts are copies of what I had a major part in developing. Frustrating, yes, irritating, yes, mad beyond words, most of the time yes.

   I am not saying this happened with Will and I hope he does not leave the SOC for what I said. I understand that he is trying to gain knowledge so he doesn't get the product quality that was delivered in his car. I do hope that he can also understand my feelings on this also, I truly do understand his.

Pat, I was one of those guys about 14 years ago. I called and talked to you but in the end I got a motor from Jake. Your motors are awesome and I've seen them run strong in both Speedsters and Spyders. It just worked out better for me being in the east coast.

I want to thank you again for your time and devotion to these 4 cylinder archaic engines. You gave me valuable info, I was a total noob at the time.

I agree, unported 44s aren't going to make 150 plus.

Keep making great engines!

Will  

 

My name is Teby Segal I own a vintage speedster with a 1904 duel weber 44idfs a cb black box and an alumiunm engine case With a setrab oil cooler.  Let me tell you the pro and cons  

 

Con  it's 25 lbs heavier  runs 15 - 25 degrees hotter, oil control issues and allows an engine builder to save $300-$500  which leads to a higher profit margin for the builder  

And in turn undercutting another builder by using a cheaper case..

 

pro  cost savings..  ( but a penny saved is a dollar spent)  

 

a 2110 is a big step up from your original motor and will be producing more horsepower, not a granny mobile and you should consider the heating issue that will arise I guarantee it  You may have to place two oil coolers to maintain a satisfactory oil temp with that big of an engine especially with an aluminum case.

 

i have had several issues with heating due to my aluminum case..  I live in the Central Valley, Fresno to be exact, and it can get hot here to say the least.. Ive done my home work throughly and I'm going to have a 2110 built as well WITH A MAG CASE..

 

I would assume that doing due diligence you have to consider the reliability of the builder and the engine itself. Thats why I'm posting this reply I'm speaking From experience.  it's not my place to criticize you, I don't even know you I'm simply reaching out to you and offering experienced advice.  

 

I know that this is your first experience with your vintage and I feel so bad for what has happened..  I hope Kirk is going to be helping with the expense of this motor  

hopefully you have a great outcome and someday we can meet maybe at the SLO meet next year..

 

Best regards 

tebs

 

 

Teby, if aluminum cases are so bad why does CB only offer aluminum cases on their website?

 

 

Ron

 

cost savings I would assume, my advice is to seek out a well built mag case...  I belive you can get good mag cases from them 

 

I was commenting on my experience with an aluminum case I think mine is an Empi which makes things worse  i have discovered that most Empi products are crap.  I've had my car for 8 years and have replaced all the Empi products on it except the case

 

its my understanding that some builders use a lot of Empi, again to cut cost and improve profit,  ask questions of the builder as far as parts used!!!

 

 I'm going to have a 2110 built with a mag case just looking into that now as far as a particular brand  ANY SUGGESTIONS?  NOT EMPI 

 

 Owning one of these cars is not cheap and I have found a "penny saved is a dollar spent"   Don't skimp on engine builds or parts  It will, in the long run,  be in you best interest  No one wants a garaged car due to crappy parts or poor workmanship.  Trust me I went through that in my rookie years of owning the car..  The whole idea is to get in your car, start it up and enjoy a nice drive to a senic destination.  Or lunch!!  Lol 

 

tebs

 

 

I don't think magnesium cases are cast any more, Ron.

 

Yup, you need to find a good used Mag case that is still good. I'm thinking that is a pretty tall task today.

That's why I bought the last 6 good used German machinable mag cases from my fiend's VW shop. I only have 2 left on my shelf for a rainy day.

How can you tell the difference between aluminum and magnesium cases?

Come on Terry!!!

 

Dont you read your own books like "Engine Case,  Suite Case" guide to packing in engine performance (circa 1977-78)   

 

refer to page 387    

 

the Aluminum case reads PEPSI on it.....   

 

Tebs 

 

So, I guess you don't know as well, Tebs.

i goggled it and found a lot of info About the two cases seems more people prefer mag

 

are you asking because you want to check out yours?

 

im sure there is a way to tell  I will find an answer for you!!!

Pat dynoed my engine with an A1 1 1/2" sidewinder on it. It is a lot like yours, a 2110 ported 043 heads magnesium case. The mag case is dark silver and says AS41 on it below the pushrod tubes. Pat told me the mag case was not quite as tough but plenty stout for my engine and it would run way cooler. Also he specified the Los Panchitos heads because they cool better.  It does seems to run pretty cool. He said in the morning it made 150 hp, in the afternoon when the air heated up and went bad it still made 146, which is plenty of power. I'm still breaking it in but it really flies. I have the center dump A1 sidewinder with the Magnaflow muffler. It is pretty quiet til you start pushing it, then it gets pretty loud but is a good sound

 

 

Magnesium cases quickly take on a dull dark grey look.  Aluminum have a shinny look longer and if you scratch with a pen knife its shinny again.  I once used a grinding disc to clean up rough casting on an old transmission - it put off near white sparks (if it were aluminum it would be no sparks).

Stan seems to be somewhat of an expert on these motors and he is urging me to have my motor built in an AS41 magnesium case.

 

It seems they're about 20 pounds lighter than the aluminum cases and from what I can gather, have larger and/or more refined oil galleys for moving the oil around the engine.

 

They are available, just check the Samba. There are used and new ones there. I'm not sure if the new ones are magnesium but they are called AS41 cases...

 

Stan had a few other suggestions for me which I am taking under advisement and will follow-up on.

 

Fpcopo, I have 2 really good videos of Mitch's car and Vintage Speed Super Flow exhaust system, they, along with MusBJims video of the A1 are what convinced me that the Vintage had the sound and volume I want.

 

 

Thanks, Greg. Were all original acvw engine cases made of magnesium?

As far as I know, all German VW engines for the VW had magnesium cases, not aluminum. The heads were aluminum.  Finding a Brazil or Mexico made magnesium case is getting harder every day , to find.  The cost has gone up so much in the past two years, due to lack of production of the magnesium case.  Most have gone to using the more available and less expensive aluminum case, I think out of Mexico, by Autoliner,  might be the manufacturer.  The aluminum case does not get rid of the heat built up in the air cooled as good as the magnesium case.  Also, I do not like adding weight on the rear of the car and 20 pounds might be short as the aluminum case feels very heavy.  They have to use thicker aluminum to get the same strength that the German made or Brazil or Mexico VW factory made magnesium cases have.  I don't see a problem using the aluminum case and one good thing, is aluminum can be welded so much easier, if you wanted to modify the case in many ways.  Finding a welder person to work on the magnesium case is like finding hen's teeth.  I cannot find one certified welding shop, in Texas who will do my old VW magnesium cases with welding on them, so have to send them out to CA.  With the new magnesium case selling for about $800 or more, last time I bought one, it is cost effective to pay for freight to CA and Back to Texas and have someone weld up a small crack or repair the thrust area, weld it and re-machine.  Cost me about $400 for all that , compared to the $800, so I can recycle the old magnesium cases, made in Germany.   I use Brother's VW Machine shop in Ontario, CA. or Rimco machine shop.  Both do good welding work.