Wilwood calipers

That's what I have on my speedster, only in black ..........

nice!...when is wilwood going to produce a E-BRAKE style rear disc brake set up...then i will  invest in front and rear update...until then what i have is going to have to do

Price check on aisle 3........'

they are $565.99 a pair

At $56 I was gonna buy a couple pairs IN CASE I buy a car that could use 'em.

$157 each from Summit. Or you can pay more for RED( a bit over $200 each).

https://www.summitracing.com/p...u6ZOEFhoCaXgQAvD_BwE

I purchased these in gray color for $100 less. I hope to have the time to install them this month along with new master,reservoir and rear wheel cylinders.

@jncspyder posted:

nice!...when is wilwood going to produce a E-BRAKE style rear disc brake set up...then i will  invest in front and rear update...until then what i have is going to have to do

They make them now, but I believe only for 4 lug and 5x130 and Chevy pattern.  I just put our first set on a clients Speedster that is in assembly.   It gets Fuchs, so it'll work for this application.   I called Wildwood about the calipers since I am a Tier 1 manufacturer with Wildwood, however they are proprietary to EMPI and JBugs so they can only be purchased through them.  There is a similar part on Summit's website also, just don't know the spec difference.

@WOLFGANG posted:

Found on Samba-

High performance Wilwood caliper to replace Empi calipers - $565 a pair.

Nice up grade to hated Empi brakes (or breaks in case of Empi).

Wilwood Caliper Upgrade for Empi VW Disc Brake Kits - Aircooled Vintage Works

The first line says all EMPI 4 lug and 5x130 kits, however they make a point in specifically saying they bolt onto your EMPI drop spindles later in the ad copy.  I've never used drop spindles to know if there is a difference and anything that would potentially prevent these from being used on a stock disc brake spindle...  anyone have enough experience with dropped spindles vs. stock spindles to know?

I was of the understanding that these calipers used the same size piston as the Ghia units as well as the same sized pads?  If this is so, where's the performance upgrade?  Other than a slight weight saving, what am I missing here?  Yeah, they do say Wilwood on them and you can get them in red for even more money, but is that it?

My question was more curiosity based for the fronts.  My interest in the rears with e-brakes is in order to have matched (in looks) calipers front and rear when we use a larger (4 piston) Wildwood front.

I would say in addition to weight savings, better brake pads is a plus, however we also have high quality brake pads for stock calipers.

@ALB Yeah, I looked at their ad for the number of pistons used. I expected to see 4, but there was no mention. The red would make them faster, but $556 for a pair is a bit steep.  What no BREMBO?

Years ago I had read that some European Chrysler Horizon (?) calipers could be used on Ghia front brakes.  I checked and they are un-available.  On cars with 914 and Speedsters with 914 front suspensions (IMs) BMW calipers can be used.  Seems as many double+ HP better brakes are needed. You'd think some brakes from other model newer VW might be able to be used.

just painted my calipers on the LC from black to another color, easy peasy,decals from ebay and then clear coat..

@chines1 posted:

My question was more curiosity based for the fronts.  My interest in the rears with e-brakes is in order to have matched (in looks) calipers front and rear when we use a larger (4 piston) Wildwood front.

I would say in addition to weight savings, better brake pads is a plus, however we also have high quality brake pads for stock calipers.

Performance question:

Being the car is so light as it is. Would the added value / expense for the Wilwood disk brake/pad be justifiable instead of using a good brake pad / disk brake?

We do use wider/better gripping tires than the 5.60x15 bias ply tires that were OEM.  I added a 12.5 gallon gas tank over the 10 gallon one so added maybe 20# to front end.

@ALB posted:

I was of the understanding that these calipers used the same size piston as the Ghia units as well as the same sized pads?  If this is so, where's the performance upgrade?  Other than a slight weight saving, what am I missing here?  Yeah, they do say Wilwood on them and you can get them in red for even more money, but is that it?

Exactly.

I've got Wilwood, 4-pot Dynalite calipers on my car.

I had the single piston CBP wide-5 brakes on it for 15+ years, but switched a couple of years ago when I went backwards from wide-5 to 5/130 late Porsche hubs, so I could run good/light 16" wheels (and more importantly, readily available 16" summer tires).

The point is not to brag, but to make a statement. There's almost no functional difference between the brakes I had and the brakes I have now. Hear me -- the SINGLE PISTON CBP brakes stopped the car as well as the 4-pot super-brakes.

I'm a huge fan of good brakes. The weight distribution of a Speedster and the brake bias of most 4-wheel disc kits is all wrong. Brakes can be much, much better than the Beetle drums, but the problem is not the readily available calipers being too small (or even too heavy). The problem with "the hated EMPI" brakes is the weight of the rotors, not the surface area of the pads or swept area of the pistons.

The "Ghia replacement" Wilwoods are an expensive answer in search of a problem.

@Stan Galat posted:

I've got Wilwood, 4-pot Dynalite calipers on my car.

I had the single piston CBP wide-5 brakes on it for 15+ years, but switched a couple of years ago when I went backwards from wide-5 to 5/130 late Porsche hubs, so I could run good/light 16" wheels (and more importantly, readily available 16" summer tires).

The point is not to brag, but to make a statement. There's almost no functional difference between the brakes I had and the brakes I have now. Hear me -- the SINGLE PISTON CBP brakes stopped the car as well as the 4-pot super-brakes.

I'm a huge fan of good brakes. The weight distribution of a Speedster and the brake bias of most 4-wheel disc kits is all wrong. Brakes can be much, much better than the Beetle drums, but the problem is not the readily available calipers being too small (or even too heavy). The problem with "the hated EMPI" brakes is the weight of the rotors, not the surface area of the pads or swept area of the pistons.

The "Ghia replacement" Wilwoods are an expensive answer in search of a problem.

Thank you. I have similar 5 x 130 / 16 summer tires hence the question with performance. Would you say a brake bias kit would help more? Is there one available?

@calmotion posted:

Performance question:

Being the car is so light as it is. Would the added value / expense for the Wilwood disk brake/pad be justifiable instead of using a good brake pad / disk brake?

Summit Racing lists this caliper as having 1.620" (41.148") piston diameter;  I believe Karmann Ghia calipers have either 40 or 42 mm pistons.  The total pad area is similar as well (and I don't think the material composition is different enough for a street pad- I could be wrong though- it wouldn't be the first time), so unless you push your beast really hard I don't see the Wilwood caliper's "superior strength and maximum durability" (their words from the Summit Racing web page) making much of a difference and being worth the extra $$$. Now, you want them because they say Wilwood and they're red- hey, to each his own.

@WOLFGANG- Summit Racing lists those Wilwood calipers as having 2 pistons.  I've never heard of the European Chrysler Horizon calipers, but that would be interesting- do you know anything about them?  Not that it matters if you can't get them.  I've also heard of the BMW calipers being used as an upgrade on 914 front suspension'd cars.  I have info on them in my notes- was investigating if a little welding/machining would adapt them to a Karmann Ghia spindle as well as looking at bolting on vented rotors, but that's packed away right now since the kitchen/main floor reno isn't finished.  As for using stuff from a newer VW model, I guess mounting points are different enough that it's not feasible, and for the longest time now everything's come with 16, 17 and even 18" wheels so none of that will physically fit in a 15" wheel.

And @Stan Galat is right- 2 piston/solid rotor brakes at both ends is more than adequate for 95 or 98% of Speedster/Spyder owners.  Where larger 4 piston front calipers and vented rotors at both ends shine is their ability to absorb and shed way more heat without boiling the fluid when you're repeatedly working your brakes to the limit- think road racing or hard (and I do mean HARD!) canyon carving.  Most guys don't ever work their cars hard enough to benefit from that kind of upgrade.

I do love the look of the CoolStop brakes, but they're expensive.  As people have said, though, you gotta pay to play...

I have given up trying to upgrade my Spyder brakes. But like many have said brake upgrades probably wouldn’t make much of a difference. I need new front pads and Greg Leach suggested these. Hawk performance pads.