Found on Samba-
High performance Wilwood caliper to replace Empi calipers - $565 a pair.
Nice up grade to hated Empi brakes (or breaks in case of Empi).
Wilwood Caliper Upgrade for Empi VW Disc Brake Kits - Aircooled Vintage Works
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That's what I have on my speedster, only in black ..........
nice!...when is wilwood going to produce a E-BRAKE style rear disc brake set up...then i will invest in front and rear update...until then what i have is going to have to do
Price check on aisle 3........'
they are $565.99 a pair
At $56 I was gonna buy a couple pairs IN CASE I buy a car that could use 'em.
$157 each from Summit. Or you can pay more for RED( a bit over $200 each).
I purchased these in gray color for $100 less. I hope to have the time to install them this month along with new master,reservoir and rear wheel cylinders.
@jncspyder posted:nice!...when is wilwood going to produce a E-BRAKE style rear disc brake set up...then i will invest in front and rear update...until then what i have is going to have to do
They make them now, but I believe only for 4 lug and 5x130 and Chevy pattern. I just put our first set on a clients Speedster that is in assembly. It gets Fuchs, so it'll work for this application. I called Wildwood about the calipers since I am a Tier 1 manufacturer with Wildwood, however they are proprietary to EMPI and JBugs so they can only be purchased through them. There is a similar part on Summit's website also, just don't know the spec difference.
@WOLFGANG posted:Found on Samba-
High performance Wilwood caliper to replace Empi calipers - $565 a pair.
Nice up grade to hated Empi brakes (or breaks in case of Empi).
Wilwood Caliper Upgrade for Empi VW Disc Brake Kits - Aircooled Vintage Works
The first line says all EMPI 4 lug and 5x130 kits, however they make a point in specifically saying they bolt onto your EMPI drop spindles later in the ad copy. I've never used drop spindles to know if there is a difference and anything that would potentially prevent these from being used on a stock disc brake spindle... anyone have enough experience with dropped spindles vs. stock spindles to know?
I was of the understanding that these calipers used the same size piston as the Ghia units as well as the same sized pads? If this is so, where's the performance upgrade? Other than a slight weight saving, what am I missing here? Yeah, they do say Wilwood on them and you can get them in red for even more money, but is that it?
My question was more curiosity based for the fronts. My interest in the rears with e-brakes is in order to have matched (in looks) calipers front and rear when we use a larger (4 piston) Wildwood front.
I would say in addition to weight savings, better brake pads is a plus, however we also have high quality brake pads for stock calipers.
@ALB Yeah, I looked at their ad for the number of pistons used. I expected to see 4, but there was no mention. The red would make them faster, but $556 for a pair is a bit steep. What no BREMBO?
Years ago I had read that some European Chrysler Horizon (?) calipers could be used on Ghia front brakes. I checked and they are un-available. On cars with 914 and Speedsters with 914 front suspensions (IMs) BMW calipers can be used. Seems as many double+ HP better brakes are needed. You'd think some brakes from other model newer VW might be able to be used.
just painted my calipers on the LC from black to another color, easy peasy,decals from ebay and then clear coat..
@chines1 posted:My question was more curiosity based for the fronts. My interest in the rears with e-brakes is in order to have matched (in looks) calipers front and rear when we use a larger (4 piston) Wildwood front.
I would say in addition to weight savings, better brake pads is a plus, however we also have high quality brake pads for stock calipers.
Performance question:
Being the car is so light as it is. Would the added value / expense for the Wilwood disk brake/pad be justifiable instead of using a good brake pad / disk brake?
We do use wider/better gripping tires than the 5.60x15 bias ply tires that were OEM. I added a 12.5 gallon gas tank over the 10 gallon one so added maybe 20# to front end.
@ALB posted:I was of the understanding that these calipers used the same size piston as the Ghia units as well as the same sized pads? If this is so, where's the performance upgrade? Other than a slight weight saving, what am I missing here? Yeah, they do say Wilwood on them and you can get them in red for even more money, but is that it?
Exactly.
I've got Wilwood, 4-pot Dynalite calipers on my car.
I had the single piston CBP wide-5 brakes on it for 15+ years, but switched a couple of years ago when I went backwards from wide-5 to 5/130 late Porsche hubs, so I could run good/light 16" wheels (and more importantly, readily available 16" summer tires).
The point is not to brag, but to make a statement. There's almost no functional difference between the brakes I had and the brakes I have now. Hear me -- the SINGLE PISTON CBP brakes stopped the car as well as the 4-pot super-brakes.
I'm a huge fan of good brakes. The weight distribution of a Speedster and the brake bias of most 4-wheel disc kits is all wrong. Brakes can be much, much better than the Beetle drums, but the problem is not the readily available calipers being too small (or even too heavy). The problem with "the hated EMPI" brakes is the weight of the rotors, not the surface area of the pads or swept area of the pistons.
The "Ghia replacement" Wilwoods are an expensive answer in search of a problem.
@Stan Galat posted:I've got Wilwood, 4-pot Dynalite calipers on my car.
I had the single piston CBP wide-5 brakes on it for 15+ years, but switched a couple of years ago when I went backwards from wide-5 to 5/130 late Porsche hubs, so I could run good/light 16" wheels (and more importantly, readily available 16" summer tires).
The point is not to brag, but to make a statement. There's almost no functional difference between the brakes I had and the brakes I have now. Hear me -- the SINGLE PISTON CBP brakes stopped the car as well as the 4-pot super-brakes.
I'm a huge fan of good brakes. The weight distribution of a Speedster and the brake bias of most 4-wheel disc kits is all wrong. Brakes can be much, much better than the Beetle drums, but the problem is not the readily available calipers being too small (or even too heavy). The problem with "the hated EMPI" brakes is the weight of the rotors, not the surface area of the pads or swept area of the pistons.
The "Ghia replacement" Wilwoods are an expensive answer in search of a problem.
Thank you. I have similar 5 x 130 / 16 summer tires hence the question with performance. Would you say a brake bias kit would help more? Is there one available?
@calmotion posted:Performance question:
Being the car is so light as it is. Would the added value / expense for the Wilwood disk brake/pad be justifiable instead of using a good brake pad / disk brake?
Summit Racing lists this caliper as having 1.620" (41.148") piston diameter; I believe Karmann Ghia calipers have either 40 or 42 mm pistons. The total pad area is similar as well (and I don't think the material composition is different enough for a street pad- I could be wrong though- it wouldn't be the first time
), so unless you push your beast really hard I don't see the Wilwood caliper's "superior strength and maximum durability" (their words from the Summit Racing web page) making much of a difference and being worth the extra $$$. Now, you want them because they say Wilwood and they're red- hey, to each his own. 
@WOLFGANG- Summit Racing lists those Wilwood calipers as having 2 pistons. I've never heard of the European Chrysler Horizon calipers, but that would be interesting- do you know anything about them? Not that it matters if you can't get them. I've also heard of the BMW calipers being used as an upgrade on 914 front suspension'd cars. I have info on them in my notes- was investigating if a little welding/machining would adapt them to a Karmann Ghia spindle as well as looking at bolting on vented rotors, but that's packed away right now since the kitchen/main floor reno isn't finished. As for using stuff from a newer VW model, I guess mounting points are different enough that it's not feasible, and for the longest time now everything's come with 16, 17 and even 18" wheels so none of that will physically fit in a 15" wheel.
And @Stan Galat is right- 2 piston/solid rotor brakes at both ends is more than adequate for 95 or 98% of Speedster/Spyder owners. Where larger 4 piston front calipers and vented rotors at both ends shine is their ability to absorb and shed way more heat without boiling the fluid when you're repeatedly working your brakes to the limit- think road racing or hard (and I do mean HARD!) canyon carving. Most guys don't ever work their cars hard enough to benefit from that kind of upgrade.
I do love the look of the CoolStop brakes, but they're expensive. As people have said, though, you gotta pay to play...
I have given up trying to upgrade my Spyder brakes. But like many have said brake upgrades probably wouldn’t make much of a difference. I need new front pads and Greg Leach suggested these. Hawk performance pads.
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@calmotion posted:Performance question:
Being the car is so light as it is. Would the added value / expense for the Wilwood disk brake/pad be justifiable instead of using a good brake pad / disk brake?
To an extent and with the right tires, but you can also get to a point where you are over-brake'd and just lock up quicker...
@WOLFGANG posted:What no BREMBO?
Actually we've modified both 964 and 986 Brembos to work on a Speedster. Partly for the "cool" factor and partly for quality vented brakes, which were much more scarce back then. You had to learn how to use them and modulate your left foot otherwise it was just too much.
@calmotion posted:Thank you. I have similar 5 x 130 / 16 summer tires hence the question with performance. Would you say a brake bias kit would help more? Is there one available?
During a full emergency stop (with 2 people in the car) from 85 or 90 mph do you get brake fade before coming to a full stop? Under reasonably heavy braking do you have to worry about one end locking up before the other?
No to the first question means you have adequate brakes for a pleasure driven street car. No to the 2nd means the brakes are pretty well balanced.
Beam front end I have had .... Now a full 911 front end. I get it that 911 brakes are vented and are better but unless you have ABS you will get to lock up soon enough to realize there are limitations to the car.
All I know is that if you calculate the surface area of the pads you might be surprised to find that for the rear a Golf caliper with built in parking brake works ! my 2 sheckels
@calmotion posted:Thank you. I have similar 5 x 130 / 16 summer tires hence the question with performance. Would you say a brake bias kit would help more? Is there one available?
Summer tires? Which ones? Treadwear rating? 300 or lower is pretty sticky. Over 300, not so much, you'll lock up and slide much quicker.
As to brake proportioning, the dual master cylinder and caliper sizing usually take care of that. You can't change the ratio on a street car without separate front and rear master cylinders, unless you put in a "proportioning valve" on one or both lines. I put "proportioning valve" in quotes, because all the valve can do is reduce the pressure in whatever line you put it in. Most people install one in the rear line, so in effect they can only bias TOWARD the front brakes.
Having had two beam-equipped Spyders, I'll share my take.
My first car had CSP solid disc front and drum rear. I changed the rear shoes to Type3 which are 10mm wider. The front calipers are single piston, sliding caliper(floating??), cast iron generic European General Motors. The brakes worked great for regular and spirited driving. Until one day they overheated at 85mph going into a corner after a couple miles of VERY intense driving on a Pennsylvania park entrance road. I still don't know how I made the corner. I would flush and bleed with fresh fluid every other year religiously, so moisture wasn't the problem. This car had Bridgestone Pole Positions which I think were above a 300(maybe 400?) treadwear.
The second Spyder has solid discs all around. They are drilled and NON-vented. 4 piston Wilwood with Wilwood performance street/track pads in the front. Generic VW single piston e-brake caliper in the back with stock pads. I have the 20.7mm(I think that is the size) dual circuit MC. These brakes are nothing short of superlative. Your passenger better be wearing the shoulder belts when you pounce on these! They are VERY easy to modulate and keep right at the lockup/max threshold. They do not fade or overheat, ever. Even at the end of a 30 minute lapping session at Lime Rock Park. You brake pretty heavily there at turn 1, tap the brakes lightly at the Lefthander, then don't touch them unless you come up behind a slower car in a no-passing zone. On HPDE days, the only acceptable place to pass is on the main straight unless you get a point-by.
IMHO, for 99% of the folks on here, the EMPI discs are adequate. I really don't think many are out there pushing their cars hard enough to need more braking.
Discs are better in every single way except possible squeal/noise if they don't get enough use.
That’s way too much bother for me. The time to do it was in 2017 when Greg built the car. I was hoping someone made an upgraded bolt in rotors and calipers. That does not exist for wide 5s. I don’t track the car. The current setup is adequate.
Summer tires? Which ones? Treadwear rating? 300 or lower is pretty sticky. Over 300, not so much, you'll lock up and slide much quicker.
I have proxies 7 and 8 x16 
mostly use for backend driving. I was on a downhill /freeway and had sudden stop upfront. The back wheels lock up hence the ask.
thanks everyone.
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@calmotion posted:The back wheels lock up hence the ask.
Yep.
@calmotion posted:Summer tires? Which ones? Treadwear rating? 300 or lower is pretty sticky. Over 300, not so much, you'll lock up and slide much quicker.
I have proxies 7 and 8 x16
mostly use for backend driving. I was on a downhill /freeway and had sudden stop upfront. The back wheels lock up hence the ask.
thanks everyone.
In that case, a valve in the rear line to reduce the pressure should work for you.
I can lock all 4 if I want on mine, but the front locks first, which is the way I like it.
@DannyP posted:In that case, a valve in the rear line to reduce the pressure should work for you.
I can lock all 4 if I want on mine, but the front locks first, which is the way I like it.
Me, too. I'd rather understeer than fly off the road backwards! Understeer is way easier to catch and correct, and if you don't catch it you get a panoramic view of whatever you're about to hit.
@JMM (Michael) doesn’t this car have tendency to oversteer having the motor in the back 🥲. I still feel this behavior even though mine has a mid engine configuration.
@calmotion posted:@JMM (Michael) doesn’t this car have tendency to oversteer having the motor in the back 🥲. I still feel this behavior even though mine has a mid engine configuration.
Are you running staggered a wheel/tire combo? Ever played with tire pressure? AFAIK, you SHOULD be able to get it pretty neutral with some adjustments.
Yes. Staggered 7 and 8 and right now I tried low pressure and now testing 32 all around
YES that is the goal to be neutral 👍🤘
What size tires are you running on the rear?
@dlearl476 posted:What size tires are you running on the rear?
they are 205x50x16 and I think it’s 185 upfront.
That’s what I ran. Maybe fiddle a bit more with TP. Also, a trip to a local track day to search out a suspension guru with a set of 4 corner weight balance scales might help.
@dlearl476 thanks. I read about the weight balance all 4 corner / adjust the coil over. I’m not stunning any stablizer bar yet and thought that might help as well. Fun cars for sure.