Busted. My first car was a '68 Firechicken.
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I may have mentioned that my engine builder does a lot of work for drag racers, so tends to err on the side of too much clutch.
When you have a lot of torques and need to get all of them to the ground in a hurry, there's no such thing as too much clutch. But too little clutch, besides slowing your departure from the little green lights, might let an engine that's already at redline suddenly go way beyond that, with expensive consequences.
If you're not a drag racer, though, or posing as one, I'm puzzled why you might want too much clutch. Probably the same reason some pickup truck drivers want too much radiator grille.
I think there's more than engineering involved in the choice.
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@Sacto Mitch posted:If you're not a drag racer, though, or posing as one, I'm puzzled why you might want too much clutch. Probably the same reason some pickup truck drivers want too much radiator grille.
I (apparently) wasted a couple hundred words explaining why about 15 posts ago. This is one of many places were too much has no downside and not enough has a pretty high price-tag.
I'm still not sure what pickup trucks ever did to my lefty friends to engender so much hand-wringing, but I doubt anybody towing with a HD 2500 with a Duramax is worried about what the NYT/WaPo/Guardian think of them.
You do you. I'm running "too much clutch".
The EFI is wired and ready. I put the 2234 in the car and mounted carbs and a distributor for the break-in.
To be as brief as possible, break-in did not go well, unless the idea was to fog the entire neighborhood for mosquitoes. I broke in the cam, and started taking it apart. The heads (and possibly the pistons and cylinders) need some work, which means the new engine comes out again and the standby 2110 will be going back in.
I guess that means Mr. Pip and me will fire the EFI on the 2110, then try again with the 2234 when I put Humpty-Dumpty back together again.
I tell myself I'm having fun, but I'm a lying liar who lies.
Sad news.
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Stan, your words are never wasted, or seldom so. If nothing else, they're a welcome weather report from flyover country.
As to clutches, I think we all find our own truth. There's an infinite combination of torque output, pressure plates, and discs. We all eventually find what works for us. I started with a Stage 2, some (unknown) disk, and only a modest bag of torque, and the result was a mess. Some swapping in and swapping out, and I had a combination that worked. No chatter, no clutch slip, and less effort. What's not to like?
It occurred to me that with a 2-liter stroker I had a very typical amount of torque output and that most folks here could probably find some solution that would grip just fine without requiring a Stage 2. We don't add extra springs to the throttle return or brake pedal beyond what's needed, so why here?
If you've got a bear of a motor, OK, you need a beartrap of a clutch. If not, you don't.
I think we both agree on the basics here, but also enjoy poking the other in the ribs when we can get away with it.
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@Stan Galat posted:The EFI is wired and ready. I put the 2234 in the car and mounted carbs and a distributor for the break-in.
To be as brief as possible, break-in did not go well, unless the idea was to fog the entire neighborhood for mosquitoes. I broke in the cam, and started taking it apart. The heads (and possibly the pistons and cylinders) need some work, which means the new engine comes out again and the standby 2110 will be going back in.
I guess that means Mr. Pip and me will fire the EFI on the 2110, then try again with the 2234 when I put Humpty-Dumpty back together again.
I tell myself I'm having fun, but I'm a lying liar who lies.
This would be surprising if your 2234 was like every other air-cooled 4 banger out there, but you're pushing the tech on a lot more than one front.
There's a cost to scratching that "make it better" itch and by doing so making it simple for the next guy. We're thankful when folks forge a new path.
I’m sorry Stan. Were those the Panchito’s with the valve stem seals? Who’s p&c, and rings?
@Michael Pickett posted:There's a cost to scratching that "make it better" itch and by doing so making it simple for the next guy. We're thankful when folks forge a new path.
... I'm tired of being that guy. I want to be some other guy for a while.
Sorry to hear abut the 2234's smoking habit, Stan, but the TdS is still months away.
@Lane Anderson posted:Sorry to hear abut the 2234's smoking habit, Stan, but the TdS is still months away.
That's correct. The busiest months of the year away.
@Stan Galat posted:... I'm tired of being that guy. I want to be some other guy for a while.
Sorry, Stan. Trial and error is so complicated with cars. Some little tweak and it will run like a top.
Don’t let it eat air cleaner washers…
Back to the clutch question of what to order, the “doctor” said Kennedy Stage 1 and stock disk (whatever is in there).
🤷🏻♂️
@Stan Galat posted:... I'm tired of being that guy. I want to be some other guy for a while.
As in "The second mouse gets the cheese." I get it.
@Teammccalla posted:Back to the clutch question of what to order, the “doctor” said Kennedy Stage 1 and stock disk (whatever is in there).
🤷🏻♂️
About 10 years ago I put s 2.2 Subaru in my MG replica, using the KEP adaptor, which comes with a Stage 1 pressure plate and the stock-whatever's-in-there HD stage 1 friction disc.
I was advised at the time to chuck the disc and order a dual-surface friction disc from Bully Clutch in Canada.
I did that, $100 or so at the time, and ended up with the most buttery smooth clutch I've ever had on any car. Holds fine the 140-ish HP and torque of that engine. It's just nice.
The Spyder engine I got came with (I think) a Kennedy Stage 1 PP and disc setup and I just cleaned and installed it, figuring a 1200-mile motor built by Jake Raby and serviced by Cary Hines should not be further altered by my theoretical improvements.
That clutch chatters. I learned to drive it so it doesn't chatter much, but it's light years from the MG unit.
So, that's a data point for you.
Another data point: The builders tend to use Sachs clutches now.
I had a Kennedy stage 1 pressure plate and a Kennedy disk which I nursed along for 20 years of chattering, thinking it was the cable, then the Bowden tube, then installed a Kafer Brace, all in hopes of curing the chatter - to no avail.
Last year I had to pull the engine for something not related and found that the clutch plate was failing. The collar on the plate was cocked to one side when the plate was sitting flat on the bench. In fact, it had been failing for years and I never knew it. I emailed Carey at Beck for his recommendation and found the Sachs HD plate and disk he recommended. I believe it is the same as what Danny P got for his Spyder, but not sure.
What I am sure of is that it grabs like a gorilla on my 2,110 and is butter smooth. I wish I had gone this route over 15 years ago!