I think Danny's estimate of $1500 is pretty close to what I put into mine, too. The ECU was pretty inexpensive - $200 or so. The other parts add up though - fuel pump, injectors, throttle bodies, manifolds, intake air temperature sensor, O2 sensor and controller, ignition module, crank sensor and mounting hardware, idle air controller wiring, disconnect plugs, etc, etc.
And that's before you add the nitrous oxide injection, turbocharger and water injection. 😃 Looking at you, Stan
So, @Michael Pickett - It is mostly a wash in cost between everything you need for EFI and the cost of a Weber Carb setup.
https://www.cbperformance.com/product-p/6413.htm
That says a lot! If I were building a new engine today, I would certainly go for EFI and Crank-fired.
The beauty of it all, @Bob: IM S6 , is that you don't have to understand how something is designed to work, just that it does and that it is reliable and you can use it.
I don't remember anymore how my WiFi system works until it screws up (which seems too often, but don't get me going on Verizon). Then I have to wade in there and read way too many web pages and mess around with configuration settings until I get it working "right" again.
At least I can still do that without enlisting the aid of my grandsons. Unless it is configuring a video game console and then what takes me over an hour to do is done by their flashing fingers in way less than five minutes. 😵💫
@Bob: IM S6 posted:I'm glad my car came with EFI, because I can't understand ten percent of what is being said here.
I do know how it works though.
Turn the ignition key, push the start button, and go.
Don't feel left out, Bob.
My understanding of all things electronic is that sensors give inputs and the CPU sends outputs, sometimes to a relay board, sometimes (in this instance) directly. Magic happens inside the box, and like all magic -- it occurs in a smoky environment. There's smoke inside the box which must not escape.
I know I've got to clear my "cache" on my TV or I get booted off Netflix, and that everytime anything updates, thar be dragons thar (printer stops printing, business software won't run, etc.). I know that when "the man" says to ground all my sensors to the sensor ground, which is isolated from the actual ground (lest I set up a dreaded "ground loop") that I better do it, if I know what's good for me.
Electronics work super-reliably if they're wired correctly, but "I pity the foo" who makes one lazy or flaky connection anywhere in the system. At that point, the entire thing just sits there in obstinate silence, like the special woman in your life who thinks you ought to "know-what-you-did-wrong-if-you-really-loved-her". You'd be terribly sad and horribly sorry (of course), but you have no actual idea what you did wrong or you wouldn't have made such a stupid and thoughtless mistake to start with. And so, you retrace every step until you find the infraction that has robbed you of the joy and satisfaction that you know will be yours if you can just get this thing right. When you do stumble into the solution, everything returns to normal and the thing goes about taking care of every detail like it was no big deal.
But it IS a big deal, because it's making thousands of computations and calculations based on a lot of (6, in this instance) different inputs -- kind of like the above referenced woman at a dinner party or when she's dealing with your teenage daughter. And like the love of your life, this amazing and beautiful thing does the exact right thing at the exact right time. You're left wondering how that happened, but you don't know. Some guy somewhere knows -- but you're not that guy, or at least I'm not.
... and so I wire neatly and follow the directions I'm given and try not to let the smoke out of the box.
@Michael Pickett posted:... And that's before you add the nitrous oxide injection, turbocharger and water injection. 😃 Looking at you, Stan
I'm laughing here -- because early last winter, I went down a turbocharging rabbithole. There is so much rich paydirt just waiting to be mined there that I could spend the rest of my life incinerating money and blowing up engines trying to find the secret sauce: the one ring to rule them all.
Also, the $1500 figure is what you told your wife it cost.
@Michael Pickett posted:I think Danny's estimate of $1500 is pretty close to what I put into mine, too. The ECU was pretty inexpensive - $200 or so. The other parts add up though - fuel pump, injectors, throttle bodies, manifolds, intake air temperature sensor, O2 sensor and controller, ignition module, crank sensor and mounting hardware, idle air controller wiring, disconnect plugs, etc, etc.
And that's before you add the nitrous oxide injection, turbocharger and water injection. 😃 Looking at you, Stan
I went back and looked and I spent $1025.( @Stan Galat actual dollars spent there, no nod-wink needed). But, that didn't include throttle bodies and fuel rails, a pump, and regulator, since I had them. Your $1500 estimate seems right though. Surely it could be done for less than $2000, even today.
It took me from ordering parts in August 2020 until April of 2021 to drive it EFI.
@Stan Galat posted:... and so I wire neatly and follow the directions I'm given and try not to let the smoke out of the box.
Wonderful answer, Stan. You captured the nuances of troubleshooting the initial setups. They are wonderfully reliable once you get it right, but there's bound to be some misunderstandings along the way.
In regards to the comment I quoted above, when I was an electronics tech for a research department, we always called the first power-on of a new instrument the "smoke test."
Yup, if it passes the smoke test you are usually G2G.
I loved the drivability and power of the Subaru in the Coupe, but find myself missing the Speedster more. The simplicity of air-cooled with the advantages of crank-fire ignition and EFI look awfully attractive to me.
@Lane Anderson posted:I loved the drivability and power of the Subaru in the Coupe, but find myself missing the Speedster more. The simplicity of air-cooled with the advantages of crank-fire ignition and EFI look awfully attractive to me.
I honestly wondered when you'd come around to that. I suspected you'd miss your Speedster -- as nice as a modern car is, it's not the same is it?
I'm hoping this is the holy grail. The essence of the thing, without the drama.
.... without the drama??!! We'd have to cancel the SOC for lack of interest and participation if you take the drama out. As the guy said above: I'm looking at you, Stan.
Standing by for the fist-fire video. By Easter, he said??? that's next week !! Talk about drama . . .
When I had my 2180 built it was engineered to add a turbo and, later, EFI.
Very long story short: I had the turbo installed and ran Webber 44s for a spell. I just could NOT get around the flat spots. After far too long fiddling I jumped to EFI with the same set up from the DubShop mentioned here. The difference was immediate and the tuning abilities are limitless.
The one thing I also discovered early on was that my Magnaspark was sensitive to heat. The negligible rise in ambient heat from the turbo was causing the ignition to shut down as the forced air piping passed over the top of the distributor. Somewhere in this site I read about an engine shutting off without warning like the key had been turned off; I suspect heat is the culprit.
It didn’t take long to diagnose the ignition issue. So now I’m running a crank fire.
Did I mention the tuning abilities? They increased exponentially when I added crank fire, then again when I added EFI to the turbo mix!
Sanitary installation. That's how it's done. Whether it's carbs or ECU, if you start neat and clean you'll avoid a world of potential hurt later.
The goal is the same whether using analog dizzies and carbs or ECU: A strong spark at the right moment and the right amount of fuel for maximum BMEP. ECU is just better at it, that's not up for arguement.
I really appreciate those that push the envelope and try to make things work better. Familiarity can have a way of leading us to accept less than stellar performance. "Better the devil you know" isn't always the wisdom it's cracked up to be. Sometimes it's a justification for not taking the chance.
That's the cool thing about this stuff. You can indulge your desire to learn, or you can indulge your desire to work with the old ways. I like the mix.
@Stan Galat posted:I honestly wondered when you'd come around to that. I suspected you'd miss your Speedster -- as nice as a modern car is, it's not the same is it?
I'm hoping this is the holy grail. The essence of the thing, without the drama.
Don't get me wrong, I love the new car, but it scratches a different itch.
With all the itches I have I must have a rash or something.
This winter the water temp at the beach has been hovering between 59 - 62 degrees.
Winter Project: Deciding if I should upgrade my 3/2 wetsuit to a 4/3 for the colder water....
@Stan Galat posted:I honestly wondered when you'd come around to that. I suspected you'd miss your Speedster -- as nice as a modern car is, it's not the same is it?
I'm hoping this is the holy grail. The essence of the thing, without the drama.
It truly is. Exactly that, and no more. Yeah you still have valve adjustments and an occasional oil leak.
But, there's no carbs to fiddle with(jets to clog), no springs and weights or modules(no distributor at all). Just turn the key and GO. And go faster.
@El Frazoo posted:.... without the drama??!! We'd have to cancel the SOC for lack of interest and participation if you take the drama out. As the guy said above: I'm looking at you, Stan.
Standing by for the fist-fire video. By Easter, he said??? that's next week !! Talk about drama . . .
And there he is, just like daylight savings time: the naysayer. He hath no faith in the ability of others.
Where have all the tinkerers gone? It's a ghost-town around here.
@MusbJim posted:This winter the water temp at the beach has been hovering between 59 - 62 degrees.
Winter Project: Deciding if I should upgrade my 3/2 wetsuit to a 4/3 for the colder water....
I think Jim, like always, is OK keeping it simple. Carbs still do the job for him😎
Nothing wrong with carbs or keeping it simple. Different folks have different itches. Me, I have to fiddle with things to make them my version of better. That's the whole point of why we shouldn't pay attention to what other people think about our motoring masterpieces/tributes/replicas/kit cars. It doesn't matter - do the things that make you happy!
^ THAT.
You do you. I’ll be over here doing me.
"I think Jim, like always, is OK keeping it simple. Carbs still do the job for him". 😎 - @Marty Grzynkowicz
Keeping it simple has always been my mindset throughout my entire adult working career. I spent 25 years as Director of several acute care and diagnostic Departments in a Trauma Center Hospital in SoCal. My laid back affect had some people think I had an apathetic attitude. To those who told me I seemed apathetic... I replied "I don't care" (see what I did there?). 
Today that same mindset carries over into my everyday life and manifests the "You Do You" mantra. 
My next one is the top on the TT... ( someday I'll get back on the speedster.)
